VOY: "Nightingale"

[PerrySimm]

Harry in charge? What could go wrong?
https://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/v956.php

[Mabus]

Neelix seems to run on the outdated idea of "Confidence = Competence".
Which in itself is a good example of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Explains why Neelix is such a shithead and why Kim acted like an idiot this episode more than before.

[Meushell]

I never liked this episode because it only let Harry “grow” after first pulling him down...like some sort of a preemptive reset button. I wouldn’t expect him to be a perfect captain of course, but he should’ve been a lot better than what we got.

[Ranchoth]

It kind of makes me wonder...has Harry really had THAT poor an amount of training and experience in command, in seven-odd years in Starfleet, plus four years in the Academy, that he's a complete bumbling naif when put in charge of a space RV?

Lack of immediate chances for promotion due to circumstances or not, I think that actually reflects worse on his superiors than Poor Dumb Harry himself.

But, at least we can be assured that, on the B-Plot front, this was the worst situation that good ol' Icheb will ever have to be involved in from now on.

[PerrySimm]

There's a few episodes of Voyager that attempted to ape TNG's "Lower Decks". "Nightingale" is at least better than "Good Shepherd", but not up to the standard of "Learning Curve", back when early Voyager was still letting Chakotay act a little bit.

The writing team was also kind of Lower-Decks here, with film editor Robert Lederman and writing partner David R. Long paired with André Bormanis, originally just the science consultant.

The A-Plot is the timeless tale of a know-it-all nerd placed in the unenviable role of trying to hold a group together. The struggle is real.

The B-Plot, on the other hand, hasn't aged well at all, and it came off as weird and awkward even at the time.

Voyager threading the needle between two warring factions was done to death on the show already, so it's maybe fine that Janeway doesn't have her hair whipped around in Blowback City as much as could have happened here. Instead we stay focused on Harry's turd sandwich deal.

The cloaking element brought back some of the submarine chase feel of classic DS9 Defiant episodes. And Harry's decisive moments at least feel earned.

The point about Being Captain Proton would be a reasonable point of focus for seventh-season Voyager, if perhaps lending the episode to more action and less intrigue. More Tom/Harry moments were sorely needed, especially because Harry doesn't really have another friend aboard, and doesn't exactly seem to be chumming it up with the new crew.

Who Harry gets command advice from is the Achilles Heel of this episode. Sure, Janeway's ability to advise is strained by the situation here, but Neelix?! Come on, Harry! Presumably Chakotay still knows a thing or two about command as an outgunned insurgent. Or Torres could lay some knowledge bombs on Harry and have a good moment outside of the terrible B-plot.

Perhaps the episode is saying something more subtle about how Harry's habits are unsuited to Command. Harry's idea of mission planning is curling up with a few PADDs and drinking coffee alone, but he doesn't think twice about doing so down in the Mess Hall, where Neelix can come up and waste his time. Harry also fails to give a second thought about asking others for the advice he needs, because THIS IS MY BIG MOMENT AND IT IS ALL ABOUT ME.

For all its faults, this still ends up being one of the most memorable Harry episodes, sadly held down by writing too willing to shortchange Harry and Icheb, which could not hold a polish even when buffed up by the incredible talents of LeVar Burton and Ron Glass.

[bronnt]

It kind of makes me wonder...has Harry really had THAT poor an amount of training and experience in command, in seven-odd years in Starfleet, plus four years in the Academy, that he's a complete bumbling naif when put in charge of a space RV?

Lack of immediate chances for promotion due to circumstances or not, I think that actually reflects worse on his superiors than Poor Dumb Harry himself.

It definitely reflects poorly on the people who should be training him. Basically, despite being the lowest ranking member of the crew, he still should have had opportunities to be in charge of something, from time to time, just to get practice at leading. The closest he ever came was when they paired him with Seven to build the Astrometrics lab, and he decided he wanted to bone her (despite her having the emotional age of a ten-year-old girl because Harry is a sexual monstrosity).

Remember that back in Pen Pals, freaking Cadet Wesley Crusher was put in charge of a survey team. Harry's experience is that even the EMH can give him orders, despite the fact that he's a program without a real body or even a freaking name.

[Jonathan101]

No-one:

Chuck: "Studies have shown that judges are more lenient at the beginning of their careers and the start of the day because decision making is inherently stressful and that's why Neelix is stupid".

Sorry, but I do wonder if any other character, on any other show, had made the same remark Neelix did about decision making, if Chuck would have dug out courtroom statistics to call them dumb or simply ignored it and moved on

[Mecha82]

I get that they might had wanted to give some character growt to Harry Kim but they failed. Also did they say why that one group of aliens had blockage against that other group of aliens?

[clearspira]

The B-Plot, on the other hand, hasn't aged well at all, and it came off as weird and awkward even at the time.

I don't disagree, it is rather cringe. Nevertheless the question now turns as to ''why'' this plot turned out so badly. After all, it is a perfectly reasonable development that someone with literally ZERO social skills due to spending most of his life as a pod baby and ZERO meaningful interaction with the opposite sex would misinterpret the signs. The only other two girls on the ship are Naomi (who is too young) and the Borg Girl (who left the ship by this point). And who are his apparent tutors in the way of becoming a human man dealing with his first potential crush? A woman who is herself suffering from a crippling lack of social skills (Seven), Shithead (Neelix), and a hologram who is technically younger than he is. The fact that this poor boy has hormones should have been considered much earlier than it actually was.

This should have been a good plot. The material is there.

[slochmoeller]

No-one:

Chuck: "Studies have shown that judges are more lenient at the beginning of their careers and the start of the day because decision making is inherently stressful and that's why Neelix is stupid".

Sorry, but I do wonder if any other character, on any other show, had made the same remark Neelix did about decision making, if Chuck would have dug out courtroom statistics to call them dumb or simply ignored it and moved on

I may be misunderstanding you, but you seem to imply that Chuck did research to find the stupid neelix moment this time. I doubt it. The thing about the judges I knew for a few years, and I think it's bordering on common knowledge at this point.

But, at least we can be assured that, on the B-Plot front, this was the worst situation that good ol' Icheb will ever have to be involved in from now on.

This originally set me off on a rant about this week's episode of picard, but because I can't figure out how to cloak spoilers I won't post it here. Suffice it to say, I feel the most recent episode, more any other moment you can point to, is where Star Trek died for me.