The great 2020 election thread....

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

So much for the tolerant left.

This is why I prefer a more centrist, grounded worldview. You have an easier time getting things done that way. You can find more common ground. On any extreme end of a spectrum, at opposite sides, their views and everything they stand for become Satan. And must be destroyed.

Really I'm fine with Bernie Sanders wanting to try to go Socialism.

Socialism... I still find that funny.

So does scandinavia.

[Captain Crimson]

So much for the tolerant left.

This is why I prefer a more centrist, grounded worldview. You have an easier time getting things done that way. You can find more common ground. On any extreme end of a spectrum, at opposite sides, their views and everything they stand for become Satan. And must be destroyed.

Really I'm fine with Bernie Sanders wanting to try to go Socialism.

Socialism... I still find that funny.

So does scandinavia.

This is where so much confusion, for me personally, comes from. Some people cite Socialism as the Nazis. Some people cite Socialism as the USSR. Others hold up Norwegian countries, but from my understanding, those have a homogeneous culture, correct? And a few claim our system does have Socialism. It's one of those things that make me happy that I avoid dedicated political circles. It's so confusing to the uninitiated like me, and then it gets so toxic.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

So much for the tolerant left.

This is why I prefer a more centrist, grounded worldview. You have an easier time getting things done that way. You can find more common ground. On any extreme end of a spectrum, at opposite sides, their views and everything they stand for become Satan. And must be destroyed.

Really I'm fine with Bernie Sanders wanting to try to go Socialism.

Socialism... I still find that funny.

So does scandinavia.

This is where so much confusion, for me personally, comes from. Some people cite Socialism as the Nazis. Some people cite Socialism as the USSR. Others hold up Norwegian countries, but from my understanding, those have a homogeneous culture, correct? And a few claim our system does have Socialism. It's one of those things that make me happy that I avoid dedicated political circles. It's so confusing to the uninitiated like me, and then it gets so toxic.

It's technically a misnomer by, but either way it is a pretty loaded term.

It's generally known that most developed countries aren't really purely capitalistic. There's a lot of considerable regulation, which is characterized as socialized, and it's inclusive of generic things like roads and police what not. Homogenous culture isn't any kind of definite requisite, but it's true that less complications have arisen from cultures that share traditions, conventions, and customs, and that can apply potentially apply to any nation, though integrating something like the US is a pretty work cut out for us kind of agenda, though that's a bit by design and even goes so far as to support time situated integration of culture, particularly from immigrants.

[Mecha82]

So much for the tolerant left.

This is why I prefer a more centrist, grounded worldview. You have an easier time getting things done that way. You can find more common ground. On any extreme end of a spectrum, at opposite sides, their views and everything they stand for become Satan. And must be destroyed.

Really I'm fine with Bernie Sanders wanting to try to go Socialism.

Socialism... I still find that funny.

So does scandinavia.

To be accurate only Norway and Sweden count as Scandinavia (there is Scandi Mountains between them) while they also belong to group with Finland, Iceland and Denmark called Nordic Countries that is often mistakenly called Scandinavia. And no, none of those countries have fully homogeneous culture with Finland having most different culture from those.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Also Greenland.

[Riedquat]

Scandinavian countries are ones that put bar codes on the sides of their ships.

(sorry, I'll get my coat!)

[Darth Wedgius]

There may be more than a little confusion about how to define socialism, including by those who want socialism.

Bernie Bros may bring up the Nordic model, but AFAIK, all Nordic economies are capitalist, with most (maybe all) scoring rather well on the Index of Economic Freedom.

Then there are the people decrying capitalism. People who decry capitalism and embrace the Nordic model are, I think, at best, confused.

We've had economies upheld as "actually existing socialism"... Until they failed and, retroactively became never really socialist. State ownership of the means of production should qualify as socialism, IMHO, but I can't recall any long-term successes.

National Socialist had some things in common with what we think of as socialist, but I think it would be unfair to think of people wanting socialism as wanting national socialism. Most of them aren't nationalist, AFAIK. And, though I don't think it would be unfair to be watchful for authoritarianism in socialist circles, I don't think it would be fair to assume authoritarianism, either.

For me, I wouldn't mind gradually giving the Nordic model a chance. Though we might have to crack down on welfare given to illegal immigrants to make it work (e.g., In June 2017, the Supreme Administrative Court of Sweden (HFD) ruled that illegal immigrants, such as those who stay in hiding after their asylum applications had been rejected in order to evade deportation, had no right to welfare benefits.)

But before making the U.S. a non-capitalistic nation, convince the People's Republic of China to go back to that route.

[Madner Kami]

There may be more than a little confusion about how to define socialism, including by those who want socialism.

Bernie Bros may bring up the Nordic model, but AFAIK, all Nordic economies are capitalist, with most (maybe all) scoring rather well on the Index of Economic Freedom.

Exactly the point I was scoffing at. Commentators on the US or rather, from the US, keep bringing up that term, but for me as a german, who once lived in a socialist country (GDR) and who currently lives in the modern day Germany, it's laughable what is considered "socialism" by those commentators. Bernie Sander's isn't a socialist, he's a social-democrat. By german standards, he's a center-right social democrat even (in some regards, even outright right-wing social democrat). I can't help but laugh about the characterization of Sanders as "socialist", because to me, it feels as if the one using it, absoluletly has no idea what the fuck he is talking about and, at worst, it comes across as a desperate attempt of defamation, even if it ain't intended to be but an honest statement.

Just to give some perspective, the German Grundgesetz (essentially our Constitution) has Article 14 to offer:

Paragraph (1): Property and Law of Inheritence are guaranteed (TN: by the state). [...]
Paragraph (2): Property compells. It's use shall serve the common good.
Paragraph (3): Disappropriation (TN: by the state) is only allowed for the common good. [...]

By the common choice of words by US commentators, Germany must seem like a communist country... But it very clearly is not. I fail to understand, how there can be such a widespread and accepted misunderstanding of those terms. It's clear we can argue in terms of how much capitalist or socialist a country or a policy is, but either way, it's obvious there are plenty of degrees between the two. How can an entire country fail to realize the existence of those degrees? I completely get why certain circles do not make use of those degrees (so they can better paint a picture of an enemy and increase their own profile while being at it), but the vast majority of your ~328 million citizens? Come on...

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

So much for the tolerant left.

So I'm intolerant because I don't want centrists and moderates to blame me if their lackluster candidate fails? What the heck, dude?

I'm on your side. I'm TRYING to depose evil and give the Democratic party a victory they won't whizz down their leg. Stop blowing me off every time i ask you to meet me one eighth of the way.

[Captain Crimson]

So much for the tolerant left.

So I'm intolerant because I don't want centrists and moderates to blame me if their lackluster candidate fails? What the heck, dude?

I'm on your side. I'm TRYING to depose evil and give the Democratic party a victory they won't whizz down their leg. Stop blowing me off every time i ask you to meet me one eighth of the way.

I can sympathize to your plight. I want to also say I am a centrist, and I dislike Mr. Biden, though I also disliked Mr. Sanders. That being said, however... do any of the political battles of today really matter? In a thousand years, will we have made any actual real progress? The post-Communist utopia we were told about as kids turned out to be a lie. We should be more real with our kids, which is why I think Gen Z is turning out the way they are. We are not lying to them. There is lots of crap coming their way, and we need to be honest with them about it.