TOS - Who Mourns for Adonais?

[Scififan]

4 out of 10 is pretty harsh. I'm not saying it's the best ST episode but it was okay. I do remember feeling sad for Apollo. He really meant well but his hubris was just so great that he couldn't help himself. Still, I don't find myself hating this episode and always kind of liking it. I also think it defined Science Fiction as being a genre where mankind has learned to use reason and logic and moved away from superstition. As Kirk said "We've outgrown you".

[Orel]

I don't have much to add except that this episode is exactly what came to mind when I was reading "Unity" and got to the part where the Vong use psychic alpha-quadrant beetles to project their war god against the Imperial fleet, so watching this review reminded me just how well Chuck blended Star Trek and Star Wars lore in that work, even managing to call back to this idiosyncratic Roddenberry stuff.

[Jonathan101]

So Chuck, at the end, says he's confused about why this episode is so respectful to some "false god" over what he did to humanity rather than attributing all of Greek achievements to humanity itself. The impression I got was that the episode was hinting he REALLY WAS Apollo, the real deal.

Also, does anyone know why the episode is about Apollo but the title refers to Adonis, a totally different Greek figure?

[Taurian Patriot]

Thinking about it more and want to add to this, and it's worldbuilding that Gene Roddenberry had problems with, often in The Original Series anything new that we learn about the Star Trek universe like the Vulcans in "Amok Time" or people like Zefram Cochrane in "Metamorphosis" were made up for those episodes, despite that these would be things already figured out to flesh out the world, even things like what year the series was set in wasn't finalized, and because episodes would have different writers, things would change, like adding shuttles to the ship or changing Kirks middle initial from R to T, heck we didn't know Kirks middle name till The Animated Series.

I started watching TOS from the beginning a few weeks back and just finished the first season. I don't think there's a single mention of the Federation in the whole time, Starfleet itself goes by a few different names, McCoy makes an early comment about Vulcan being conquered before Spock says differently a while later, and Vulcans themselves are typically called "Vulcanians." And that's just off the top of my head. One of the only little details that stayed consistent between episodes is Sulu constantly picking up new hobbies (specifically called out in "The Naked Time") and the idea that Starfleet isn't supposed to interfere with developing cultures (the Prime Directive only being mentioned in "The Return of the Archons," but referenced often throughout the next two seasons).

At least until the second season, you're almost certainly right that either Gene had only worked out the background in extremely broad strokes, or other writers were just doing whatever without his input. Even then, worldbuilding seemed to be limited to episodes steeped in it, like "Amok Time" and "Journey to Babel."

[clearspira]

So Chuck, at the end, says he's confused about why this episode is so respectful to some "false god" over what he did to humanity rather than attributing all of Greek achievements to humanity itself. The impression I got was that the episode was hinting he REALLY WAS Apollo, the real deal.

Also, does anyone know why the episode is about Apollo but the title refers to Adonis, a totally different Greek figure?

Yeah, that's what I thought too. Chuck seemed a bit confused on that.

As for the title, it is named after a poem by British poet Percy Bysshe Shelly called ''Adonais: An Elegy on the Death of John Keats'' written back in 1821 regarding the untimely death of the god Adonis. "Adonais" is also the English plural of the Hebrew spoken name of God, so a translated title would become "Who Mourns for Gods?"

I had honestly never heard of the guy before I wiki'd him but he was a remarkable man: he's credited with being a vegetarian, a progressive, a pacifist, an atheist, was a massive influence on Karl Marx, Tolstoy, Ghandi and Martin Luther King among others, was married to Mary Shelley of Frankenstein fame and died a very suspicious death in 1822 which many believe to be politically motivated. And bear in mind is that whilst there is nothing special about being a progressive vegetarian atheist today, this was the 1820s. He was bordering on being a blasphemous traitor. In other words, you could argue him to be Roddenberry ideal, which may have been why he was chosen.

[clearspira]

BTW, I did discover one other thing on my Wiki binge: the original ending for this episode had Palamas fall pregnant with Apollo's child. And it isn't at all clear that she wasn't raped.

KIRK: "Yes, Bones? Somebody ill?"
McCOY: "Carolyn Palamas rejected her breakfast this mornin."
KIRK: "Some bug going around?"
McCOY: "She's pregnant, Jim. I've just examined her."
KIRK: "What?"
McCOY: "You heard me."
KIRK: "Apollo?"
McCOY: "Yes"
KIRK: "Bones, it's impossible!"
McCOY: "Spock, may I put a question to this gadget of yours? I'd like to ask it if I'm to turn my Sickbay into a delivery room for a Human child–or a god. My medical courses did not include obstetrics for infant gods."

[Link8909]

BTW, I did discover one other thing on my Wiki binge: the original ending for this episode had Palamas fall pregnant with Apollo's child. And it isn't at all clear that she wasn't raped.

KIRK: "Yes, Bones? Somebody ill?"
McCOY: "Carolyn Palamas rejected her breakfast this mornin."
KIRK: "Some bug going around?"
McCOY: "She's pregnant, Jim. I've just examined her."
KIRK: "What?"
McCOY: "You heard me."
KIRK: "Apollo?"
McCOY: "Yes"
KIRK: "Bones, it's impossible!"
McCOY: "Spock, may I put a question to this gadget of yours? I'd like to ask it if I'm to turn my Sickbay into a delivery room for a Human child–or a god. My medical courses did not include obstetrics for infant gods."

Yeah, like I said in my earlier post this is what I like to call a big oof.

[Link8909]

I started watching TOS from the beginning a few weeks back and just finished the first season. I don't think there's a single mention of the Federation in the whole time, Starfleet itself goes by a few different names, McCoy makes an early comment about Vulcan being conquered before Spock says differently a while later, and Vulcans themselves are typically called "Vulcanians." And that's just off the top of my head. One of the only little details that stayed consistent between episodes is Sulu constantly picking up new hobbies (specifically called out in "The Naked Time") and the idea that Starfleet isn't supposed to interfere with developing cultures (the Prime Directive only being mentioned in "The Return of the Archons," but referenced often throughout the next two seasons).

At least until the second season, you're almost certainly right that either Gene had only worked out the background in extremely broad strokes, or other writers were just doing whatever without his input. Even then, worldbuilding seemed to be limited to episodes steeped in it, like "Amok Time" and "Journey to Babel."

Indeed, honestly I kind of take for granted just how much the Star Trek universe has grown over the last 50 plus years and how much was expanded upon, for example we all know everything about Zefram Cochrane and his role in the Star Trek history now, yet back then till First Contact there was so little information about him, same with Vulcans, I can't imagine a time when Spock and is culture was a mystery to the audience.

[Jonathan101]

So Chuck, at the end, says he's confused about why this episode is so respectful to some "false god" over what he did to humanity rather than attributing all of Greek achievements to humanity itself. The impression I got was that the episode was hinting he REALLY WAS Apollo, the real deal.

Also, does anyone know why the episode is about Apollo but the title refers to Adonis, a totally different Greek figure?

Yeah, that's what I thought too. Chuck seemed a bit confused on that.

As for the title, it is named after a poem by British poet Percy Bysshe Shelly called ''Adonais: An Elegy on the Death of John Keats'' written back in 1821 regarding the untimely death of the god Adonis. "Adonais" is also the English plural of the Hebrew spoken name of God, so a translated title would become "Who Mourns for Gods?"

I had honestly never heard of the guy before I wiki'd him but he was a remarkable man: he's credited with being a vegetarian, a progressive, a pacifist, an atheist, was a massive influence on Karl Marx, Tolstoy, Ghandi and Martin Luther King among others, was married to Mary Shelley of Frankenstein fame and died a very suspicious death in 1822 which many believe to be politically motivated. And bear in mind is that whilst there is nothing special about being a progressive vegetarian atheist today, this was the 1820s. He was bordering on being a blasphemous traitor. In other words, you could argue him to be Roddenberry ideal, which may have been why he was chosen.

Oh, Keats- that makes more sense.

I've been in his home in Rome. It's a museum now.

EDIT: Oh, you meant Shelly :'xD

You might remember him from "Ozymandias".

[AllanO]

Chuck commented that the gown Apollo puts Palamas in looks prone to wardrobe malfunction. Maybe he was being coy, but apparently the get-up is noted for that. Apparently Stephen Whitfield in the Making of Star Trek (I read about this in another book that refers to this book) comments that it all anchors on a single point kept in place by the weight of the cape part.

This would appear to be an application of the "Theiss Titillation Theory": "The sexiness of an outfit is directly proportional to the perceived possibility that a vital piece of it might fall off."

William Ware Theiss being the costume designer for Star Trek.

In terms of Chuck calling Apollo a false god. Even if this guy was the actual inspiration for the myths and religious practices, the point is that it was under false pretenses, the Greek gods (at least a reported in their myth) claimed to be important parts of the furniture of the world regulating things like the seasons and who had major impact on things like the creation and development of the human race. As depicted these guys are just really sexy electric eels who arrived 5000 years ago well after humanity had evolved its current physical structure, the seasons occurred and so on and some of the first agriculture had occurred.

Given the tenor of the episode one might as reasonably speculate that humanity's accomplishments arise from our native ingenuity and determination with the electric eel aliens providing only perhaps a little cosmetic inspiration here and there to some Doric columns. Given Kirk's we are alone except for the rest of humanity speech to Palamas this seems more appropriate kind of note to end on, rather than "gee they gave us so much" when we have about equal evidence they were basically space carnies running a scam.

In terms of world building this episode tends to be very human centric for a show about an interplanetary-interspecies Federation it seems more like a science fiction story told about humans alone in the universe to now discovering the gods were Ancient Aliens (tm), both my comment about all the other humanoids these guys could have run their "we're gods" scheme on and Kirk's human centric speech to Palamas.

I was curious if the name Palamas which is Greek (although so is every word ), but apparently it just means the palm of the hand.