VOY - Collective

[J!!]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

[FaxModem1]

Poor Icheb, fridged so that Seven can be a dark and gritty murderess because apparently revenge is considered to be adult and real. It is the anti-Trek message. At least it wasn't animated.

Worst part of it was that they chose to do so in an episode that was trying to be a comedy, with the crew of that episode all wearing disguises and having fun infiltrating people. Having the opening being the cold blooded torture and vivisection of Icheb showed a rather huge lack of concern for him by the writers.

[Artabax]

7 of 9 was not a mentor for Icheb, she gave him useful information.

Obi-wan told Luke that Vader killed his father.
Bloodraven told Bran that it was very very dangerous to touch Night-King during dream-time only after Bran touched Night-King during dream-time.
Dumbledore spent book 6 telling Harry a heap of blather with zero informational content.

Dumbledore was not a mentor for Tom Riddle. DD told Riddle the exact procedure for making horcruces, where to hide them etc. DD told Riddle useful information.

[FlynnTaggart]

Drones being "born Borg" is something I'd never considered. I kinda wonder how such a person would be if disconnected, seems like most drones have bits and pieces of personality from before, some even got the entire shebang of who they were. But for those born borg there would be nothing, maybe some personality picked up in the Collective but dunno. Certainly would be alot like 7 where they want to go back to being a drone because being borg is all they knew.

Also, Icheb, poor dumb Icheb. Well maybe not dumb but certainly poor. I know he was not the most beloved character but still even doing Neelix that dirty to have him killed like that and in front of the closest thing he has to a mom, John Connor can sympathize (well he could if not for shotgun blast). It like killing Dahj, solely done to motivate a character and to be gruesome.

I'll admit that episode with that opening and all the wacky stupid costume crap after ending with 7 seeming like it was a bad thing she killed a murderous criminal with some Halo assault rifles (I swear thats what she had) and then that actually murderous ending just made me hit the eject button on the series. Just showed zero dang respect for the franchise to me. Nothing wrong with killing a character, even a beloved character and I'm not one to complain about "fridging" a character when done well but done so gruesomely, so pointlessly, yeah it bothers me.

[Sir Will]

As far as them creating new kids to be Borg, I don't know. I think it possible they just assimilated a baby. The other kids were supposed to still be in maturation chambers of their own, they just got released by the malfunctions.

[Link8909]

Icheb always felt like Voyager's Jake Sisko, there not so much for his own development (though he did get some later) but more for giving depth to Seven. And for the most part it worked, as outside a Naomi Wildman, someone like him made the most sense for her to a mentor.

That's pretty much how I feel about Icheb as well, I personally think Jake Sisko was far more interesting and done better, not only was Jake more charismatic than Icheb, but Jake did get more development beyond his relationship with his dad, like having him wanting to be a writer and journalist that would either be a continuing background element or even a full episode like "Nor the Battle to the Strong" which was also a great episode for Jake, or his friendship with Nog and helping him become the most celebrated character on Deep Space Nine by not judging Nog by his race and treated him with respect, and even the episode about his relationship with is dad and the loss of his mom are fantastic like "The Visitor" and "Shattered Mirror".

Jake Sisko may have started out as someone to give depth to Captain Sisko, but he did grown out of that and became is own, personally Icheb never grew beyond giving Seven more depth, and even then he was just boring, honestly the dynamic between Seven and Naomi Wildman was far better that that of Seven and Icheb.

Heck, I only thing we even remember Icheb is because of his fridging in Star Trek Picard, as J!! posted and I agree with:

He died as he lived: as a naritive tool to facilitate 7's character development.

And while we do talk about Icheb, I've not heard anyone talk about the other Borg kids and their contribution to Star Trek Voyager, I don't even think anyone can remember their names without looking it up, heck even the series forgot about the Borg baby, as far as anyone's concerned Captain Janeway just yeeted the baby onto the nearest planet and called it a day.

[Link8909]

As far as them creating new kids to be Borg, I don't know. I think it possible they just assimilated a baby. The other kids were supposed to still be in maturation chambers of their own, they just got released by the malfunctions.

I imagine it's both like what Chuck said, I'm sure the Borg assimilate babies and put them in a Maturation chamber to speed them up so they can serve the Collective, but I can see them just growning new Drones from scratch to make up the numbers.

[Link8909]

Heck even the series forgot about the Borg baby, as far as anyone's concerned Captain Janeway just yeeted the baby onto the nearest planet and called it a day.

So after writing this I'm now reminded of the opening scene in Kung Pow: Enter The Fist, where the main character as a baby is rolling down a hill, only to be picked up by a traveling woman who you think would adopt the infant... only to then toss the baby down another hill.

[jadenova]

https://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/v935.php
Though this episode does point to the amusing escalation of Voyager with TNG. On the latter show the crew essentially sheltered one Borg whom eventually went back to the Collective within the same episode. The former however picks up Borg like they're stray dogs they find the on the side of the road. Presumably if the show had gone to season 8, Janeway would have included an invitation for any Borg looking for a place to crash in the standard hail.

Janeway could have been a crazy Borg lady.

[Linkara]

While I'm more inclined to cut Neelix more slack... Chuck's interpretation of a Neelix scene was pretty spot-on, sadly.

Ah, well, now that he's chief engineer, at least he won't be making terrible food for a crew anymore. Can't wait to see the Ectum Ray in action!