The Marvel Cinematic Universe (A.k.A. The MCU)

[The Romulan Republic]

Well, for one PC or Politically Correct characters (I guess a more narrowed defination would be like characters that are considered to be diverse).

So, literally, a character is "PC" (and this is presumably a bad thing) if they're not a straight white man? That is staggeringly racist and sexist, as it is essentially saying that their is no possible reason outside of a sinister political agenda to portray a woman or minority as a major character.

I'm not saying this is your attitude, but you haven't really given any other definition, and I know some people who do seem to think this way.

Now what those videos were actually responding was this guy's comment last April:

After being praised for its promotion of diversity, a Marvel executive suggested this weekend that the publishing company’s newest superheroes may have caused a slump in comic book sales.

Last week, while at the Marvel Retailer Summit, Marvel’s senior vice president of print, sales, and marketing, David Gabriel, created an uproar after implying that the addition of racially diverse and female characters could have led to a sales decline.

“What we heard was that people didn’t want any more diversity,” Gabriel told iCv2 after being asked what contributed to changes in customer tastes that led to a drop in sales in October-November. “They didn’t want female characters out there. That’s what we heard, whether we believe that or not.”

He also cited economic reasons and Marvel’s release of “too much product” as other possible causes for the downturn in sales.

“We saw the sales of any character that was diverse, any character that was new, our female characters, anything that was not a core Marvel character, people were turning their nose up against,” Gabriel added. “That was difficult for us because we had a lot of fresh, new, exciting ideas that we were trying to get out and nothing new really worked.”

http://variety.com/2017/biz/news/marvel ... 202021440/

The VP thinks that it's solely because of the fact that they are trying to diversify their character line ups and that is why sales are slumping. Now, I would say that the real reason is that the writing sucks, and that is why sales are slumping, but they are trying to parade around these diverse characters and say that their comics are better solely for the change. Again, comic book readers are familiar and very accepting to changes/passing of the torch stories but these stories just suck because of the writing.

Yup, just as I thought. Characters don't sell, blame it on the fact that they don't have a white dick.

Also, you know, this seems like a self-made/self-perpetuating problem. Marvel caters predominantly to a sexist young male audience. So that's the audience that they have. So of course their audience is full of people who don't want more female and minority characters.

Good job tying yourselves to an obnoxious and shrinking demographic, idiots.

Another thing I would like to add is what they did to Steve Rogers. They made him into a comsic cubed warped Hydra (devoted) follower for what really? What was the point of that story?

I don't think anyone is going to defend that. Although... having the franchise's symbolic personification of American and American values turn out to be a Nazi, right around the time Trump becomes President, could be taken as clever political satire, I suppose.

Only, I think it misses the point of Steve Rogers, at least for me. Half of what makes him interesting is the clash between an idealized vision of America, and the reality of America. Making him represent the dark side of America negates that.

[cilantro]

Well, for one PC or Politically Correct characters (I guess a more narrowed defination would be like characters that are considered to be diverse).

So, literally, a character is "PC" (and this is presumably a bad thing) if they're not a straight white man? That is staggeringly racist and sexist, as it is essentially saying that their is no possible reason outside of a sinister political agenda to portray a woman or minority as a major character.

I'm not saying this is your attitude, but you haven't really given any other definition, and I know some people who do seem to think this way.

I just have a lack of a better definition. I mean yeah they are diverse but since when was it new for there be black, LBTQ, female, etc.. characters that are also superheroes in comics as a new thing? I mean, there are literally thousands and thousands of diverse comic book characters that many readers have enjoyed for decades. So, what make these new characters so speical or not special? Probably because the writing sucks and Marvel is trying to find something to blame the low sales on.

Now what those videos were actually responding was this guy's comment last April:

After being praised for its promotion of diversity, a Marvel executive suggested this weekend that the publishing company’s newest superheroes may have caused a slump in comic book sales.

Last week, while at the Marvel Retailer Summit, Marvel’s senior vice president of print, sales, and marketing, David Gabriel, created an uproar after implying that the addition of racially diverse and female characters could have led to a sales decline.

“What we heard was that people didn’t want any more diversity,” Gabriel told iCv2 after being asked what contributed to changes in customer tastes that led to a drop in sales in October-November. “They didn’t want female characters out there. That’s what we heard, whether we believe that or not.”

He also cited economic reasons and Marvel’s release of “too much product” as other possible causes for the downturn in sales.

“We saw the sales of any character that was diverse, any character that was new, our female characters, anything that was not a core Marvel character, people were turning their nose up against,” Gabriel added. “That was difficult for us because we had a lot of fresh, new, exciting ideas that we were trying to get out and nothing new really worked.”

http://variety.com/2017/biz/news/marvel ... 202021440/

The VP thinks that it's solely because of the fact that they are trying to diversify their character line ups and that is why sales are slumping. Now, I would say that the real reason is that the writing sucks, and that is why sales are slumping, but they are trying to parade around these diverse characters and say that their comics are better solely for the change. Again, comic book readers are familiar and very accepting to changes/passing of the torch stories but these stories just suck because of the writing.

Yup, just as I thought. Characters don't sell, blame it on the fact that they don't have a white dick.

Also, you know, this seems like a self-made/self-perpetuating problem. Marvel caters predominantly to a sexist young male audience. So that's the audience that they have. So of course their audience is full of people who don't want more female and minority characters.

Good job tying yourselves to an obnoxious and shrinking demographic, idiots.

It's more like Marvel just trying to point the finger somewhere else. The writing sucks, and people are not linging up buying the comcis (which after a while does amount to a lot of money- per month).

Another thing I would like to add is what they did to Steve Rogers. They made him into a comsic cubed warped Hydra (devoted) follower for what really? What was the point of that story?

I don't think anyone is going to defend that. Although... having the franchise's symbolic personification of American and American values turn out to be a Nazi, right around the time Trump becomes President, could be taken as clever political satire, I suppose.

Only, I think it misses the point of Steve Rogers, at least for me. Half of what makes him interesting is the clash between an idealized vision of America and the reality of America. Making him represent the dark side of America negates that.

Sigh, they just finished up the whole storyline (and it was literally long). I do think that if Trump wasn't elected it might have been better received but since they thought that turning this character:




Into a Nazi was a good idea and still ran with the idea going into Trump's first term wasn't a good idea.

[The Romulan Republic]

Well, for one PC or Politically Correct characters (I guess a more narrowed defination would be like characters that are considered to be diverse).

So, literally, a character is "PC" (and this is presumably a bad thing) if they're not a straight white man? That is staggeringly racist and sexist, as it is essentially saying that their is no possible reason outside of a sinister political agenda to portray a woman or minority as a major character.

I'm not saying this is your attitude, but you haven't really given any other definition, and I know some people who do seem to think this way.

I just have a lack of a better definition.

And that's kind of my point. If you can't come up with a definition that isn't transparently racist and sexist, then maybe its not a very good argument to begin with.

I mean yeah they are diverse but since when was it new for there be black, LBTQ, female, etc.. characters that are also superheroes in comics as a new thing? I mean, there are literally thousands and thousands of diverse comic book characters that many readers have enjoyed for decades.

Thousands? Certainly not thousands, probably not even hundreds, of really major non-white male characters.

Its also a question of both percentages, and how they are portrayed. Ten thousand female characters doesn't equal equality if nearly all of them are either love interests, side-kicks, or femme fatale villainesses.

So, what make these new characters so speical or not special? Probably because the writing sucks and Marvel is trying to find something to blame the low sales on.

Yup.

It's more like Marvel just trying to point the finger somewhere else. The writing sucks, and people are not linging up buying the comcis (which after a while does amount to a lot of money- per month).

Its both.

Trying to find one reason why comic sales are faltering is like trying to find one reason why the Titanic sunk, or one reason why Donald Trump is President. There isn't one. Its a nice little confluence of stupidity, bias, incompetence, bad luck, and changing times, to create a black hole of failure.

Another thing I would like to add is what they did to Steve Rogers. They made him into a comsic cubed warped Hydra (devoted) follower for what really? What was the point of that story?

Sigh, they just finished up the whole storyline (and it was literally long). I do think that if Trump wasn't elected it might have been better received but since they thought that turning this character:




Into a Nazi was a good idea and still ran with the idea going into Trump's first term wasn't a good idea.

On the contrary, as I said, the fact that it can be taken as a satirical reference to Trump is the only thing about it I can think of that isn't utterly vacuous and pointless. Though not enough to save it.

[cilantro]

Well, for one PC or Politically Correct characters (I guess a more narrowed defination would be like characters that are considered to be diverse).

So, literally, a character is "PC" (and this is presumably a bad thing) if they're not a straight white man? That is staggeringly racist and sexist, as it is essentially saying that their is no possible reason outside of a sinister political agenda to portray a woman or minority as a major character.

I'm not saying this is your attitude, but you haven't really given any other definition, and I know some people who do seem to think this way.

I just have a lack of a better definition.

And that's kind of my point. If you can't come up with a definition that isn't transparently racist and sexist, then maybe its not a very good argument to begin with.

I mean yeah they are diverse but since when was it new for there be black, LBTQ, female, etc.. characters that are also superheroes in comics as a new thing? I mean, there are literally thousands and thousands of diverse comic book characters that many readers have enjoyed for decades.

Thousands? Certainly not thousands, probably not even hundreds, of really major non-white male characters.

Its also a question of both percentages, and how they are portrayed. Ten thousand female characters doesn't equal equality if nearly all of them are either love interests, side-kicks, or femme fatale villainesses.

So, what make these new characters so speical or not special? Probably because the writing sucks and Marvel is trying to find something to blame the low sales on.

Yup.

It's more like Marvel just trying to point the finger somewhere else. The writing sucks, and people are not linging up buying the comcis (which after a while does amount to a lot of money- per month).

Its both.

Trying to find one reason why comic sales are faltering is like trying to find one reason why the Titanic sunk, or one reason why Donald Trump is President. There isn't one. Its a nice little confluence of stupidity, bias, incompetence, bad luck, and changing times, to create a black hole of failure.

Another thing I would like to add is what they did to Steve Rogers. They made him into a comsic cubed warped Hydra (devoted) follower for what really? What was the point of that story?

Sigh, they just finished up the whole storyline (and it was literally long). I do think that if Trump wasn't elected it might have been better received but since they thought that turning this character:




Into a Nazi was a good idea and still ran with the idea going into Trump's first term wasn't a good idea.

On the contrary, as I said, the fact that it can be taken as a satirical reference to Trump is the only thing about it I can think of that isn't utterly vacuous and pointless. Though not enough to save it.

It boils down to this. If no one is interested in the characters then no one is going to continue reading the comics. And if no one is reading the comics then the comics will stop priting. Also, if the writing of said characters are shitty then no one is going to be reading the comics.

[The Romulan Republic]

Yup. That holds true regardless of race, gender, etc.

Now, they should absolutely have diverse casts because its an issue of both ethical fairness and realism, and opens up more story-telling opportunities in certain ways if done well. But I don't think that anyone thinks simply having diverse casting is going to save them if its shitty writing, any more than having a diverse cast in and of itself will kill their sales.

Indeed, diverse casts that are written badly aren't progressive- they're doing a disservice to women and minorities by representing them poorly, with a large portion of the backlash almost sure to fall on said women and minorities.

[TGLS]

Honestly, I don't get how Thor can be somebody else. Maybe Captain America, but not Thor. To me, it's like if Stephen Hawking was suddenly somebody else, but still Stephen Hawking.

[The Romulan Republic]

Yeah, Thor is a name, not a title, which makes it kind of strange. You could have someone else taking on Thor's job, masquerading as Thor, but they wouldn't be Thor.

Captain America is a title, that could conceivably be transferred to another person. Most superhero identities are like that, actually. Thor is kind of the odd man out here, being derived from an actual mythological figure.