B5 - Voices of Authority

[Rocketboy1313]

I have to say I'm really troubled by Chuck talking about rebranding racism as white supremacy to me it feels like he's downplaying the threat of white supremacism when just now we have Trump refusing to condemn white supremacism and encouraging the proud boys.

While biden don't say anything about antifa

I am guessing you did not actually watch the debate?

[Rocketboy1313]

I think the Trump sort of assumed at that point that he had condemned them, and he didn't want to go into detail because it would delay him making the point that the overwhelming majority of the recent violence was perpetrated by the left. I think he thought, rightfully, that the issue of white supremacists was being used to deflect from the violence committed by Antifa and BLM. In particular, Wallace was pushing for a detailed response (he mentioned "militias" as well as and asked Trump to ask them to stand down) that would have derailed his ability to make this point completely.

In fact, Trump has condemned white supremacists several times.

I don't know what is going on in the mirror universe you live in, but here in the real world:
What you described did not happen.

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1311134333269430275

https://twitter.com/VanJones68/status/1311141051164487681
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/30/us/politics/trump-debate-white-supremacy.html
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/30/politics/white-supremacy-trump-proud-boys-charlottesville-kkk-david-duke/index.html

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

I have to say I'm really troubled by Chuck talking about rebranding racism as white supremacy to me it feels like he's downplaying the threat of white supremacism when just now we have Trump refusing to condemn white supremacism and encouraging the proud boys.

While biden don't say anything about antifa

I am guessing you did not actually watch the debate?

Antifa drank all the water out of my brita filter jug without replacing it and now my throat is parched.

[J!!]

In fact, Trump has condemned white supremacists several times.

so then, why do they love him so much?


youtu.be/eF72gg9No_U


youtu.be/R8Y_7p1lNDk


god, my youtube recommendations are gonna be fucked up for the next little while.

[CharlesPhipps]

In my hellhole state where we literally had a war to try to keep our unions against coal bosses who employed assassins, thugs, and murderers to keep down miners--we have introduced "right to work" legislation which is designed to make it so the unions are somehow an abridgement of our freedom to be exploited by the often very same corporations that used to kill our ancestors.

Changing language doesn't protect you against exploitation and it can only do so much. 1984 may name the Ministry of Love, well the Ministry of Love, but people will pick up on the fact that it is a pretty awful thing. But it CAN buy you time.

[FlynnTaggart]

In my hellhole state where we literally had a war to try to keep our unions against coal bosses who employed assassins, thugs, and murderers to keep down miners--we have introduced "right to work" legislation which is designed to make it so the unions are somehow an abridgement of our freedom to be exploited by the often very same corporations that used to kill our ancestors.

Changing language doesn't protect you against exploitation and it can only do so much. 1984 may name the Ministry of Love, well the Ministry of Love, but people will pick up on the fact that it is a pretty awful thing. But it CAN buy you time.

West Virginia?

Also as someone from the big city of Charleston myself I do understand the needs for unions because yes, coal miners literally got bombed by the Air Force (or I guess Army Air Corps) trying to unionize. Unions are highly beneficial even if one can argue they are magnets for corruption. Unions help destroy the sort of corporate dystopia many corporate big-wigs push for by reducing workers down to individuals.

However at the same time unions are arguably an abridgment of freedumb, freedom of association and freedom of choice. Where you unions are mandatory you literally have no choice, you can either work while paying some organization you didn't agree to join or not be able to work. The same sort of argument people make about Home Owners Associations, forced to join and pay a non-government agency essentially taxes with the membership fees.

There is certainly arguments to be made against unions without being some Randroid purely on the concept of freedom alone.

And I will add that this is mostly from my own viewpoint on the matter, I support unions personally but do not support someone being compelled into a contract be it by other workers or some company or some gaggle of petty tyrant neighbors who can repossess your house if you don't pay their arbitrary fees.

[Madner Kami]

Also as someone from the big city of Charleston myself I do understand the needs for unions because yes, coal miners literally got bombed by the Air Force (or I guess Army Air Corps) trying to unionize. Unions are highly beneficial even if one can argue they are magnets for corruption. Unions help destroy the sort of corporate dystopia many corporate big-wigs push for by reducing workers down to individuals.

Corruption is a given, whenever some people have more power than others. This can't be avoided, but there are ways to adress and contain the issues, via rules of transparency, rigorous punishment in case of proven wrong behaviour and dispersing power over more shoulders instead of concentrating it on just a few.

[FlynnTaggart]

Also as someone from the big city of Charleston myself I do understand the needs for unions because yes, coal miners literally got bombed by the Air Force (or I guess Army Air Corps) trying to unionize. Unions are highly beneficial even if one can argue they are magnets for corruption. Unions help destroy the sort of corporate dystopia many corporate big-wigs push for by reducing workers down to individuals.

Corruption is a given, whenever some people have more power than others. This can't be avoided, but there are ways to adress and contain the issues, via rules of transparency, rigorous punishment in case of proven wrong behaviour and dispersing power over more shoulders instead of concentrating it on just a few.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not the type to toss out the baby with the bathwater or rather the union with the corruption because of their track record of being like what the NRA is to the Republican party but with the Mafia (and with recent allegations against the NRA possibly less corrupt too, as someone who supports gun rights it REALLY sucks those chuckleheads are the only thing standing against anti-gun groups even if its more for their corporate supporters then gun owners "clutching" their high powered shoulder thing that goes up "assault rifle-15s").

Its a problem that needs addressed legally and not used an excuse to do away with unions, just maybe an excuse to be wary of them at times and for greater government oversight to ensure unions aren't into the pocket of the mafia.

[G-Man]

In fact, Trump has condemned white supremacists several times.

I don't know what is going on in the mirror universe you live in, but here in the real world:
What you described did not happen.
[/quote]

When Trump said "sure," I think he assumed that saying so WAS condemning white supremacy. Then Chris wanted him in addition to tell the groups to "stand down." So that's what he did, although he forgot the exact phrasing. I truly think he was simply trying to get to his main goal of pointing out that the vast majority of violence these past few months was being done by leftists, and any deficiencies in his response was due to him trying to bring things back to his main point.

As for Trump condemning white supremacists several times, I don't mean specifically during the debate; I mean on many occasions he has condemned white supremacists and it eventually gets annoying being constantly asked to do this as a disclaimer.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/02/trump-has-condemned-white-supremacists/

[J!!]

I ask again: if president trump condemns white supremacists so much, why do white supremacists continue to support him?