DIS - Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 1

[JL_Stinger]

I was really hoping the end of Discovery Season 2 was just going to write the whole damn thing off and move on. Why they feel the need to have a Season 3 I cannot fathom.

Now the Pike-Enterprise show? That I'm interested in.

[Worffan101]

Chuck's open contempt is really something.

Super psyched for the finale!

[Thebestoftherest]

I was really hoping the end of Discovery Season 2 was just going to write the whole damn thing off and move on. Why they feel the need to have a Season 3 I cannot fathom.

Now the Pike-Enterprise show? That I'm interested in.

Why do they think trying to tell tales before kirk is a good idea, is never works.

[TGLS]

So, I have a little theory: I think that the original plan for the season was that it would turn out for Pike to have been the Red Angel all along, and I think the decision to change that was probably made at the last minute, because throughout the season, they seemed to be foreshadowing it.

First there was Mike's initial vision of the angel, which morphed into Pike, then there were a number of shots of him that seemed deliberately aranged to give him the appearence of having wings. And then there was his vision of his future.

I think the plan was for Pike to take the suit and travel time for the future of mankind, despite knowing it would lead to him being horribly injured, leaving him as he would be in TOS. But then part way through the season they decided to do a spinoff with him & the Enterprise, and so needed to come up with reasons to have someone else wear the suit.

I have no actual proof of this, but it would explain all the last-minute asspulling right at the end of the season.

Hopefully the reason they did not go with that plot is that it would be yet another huge retcon.

It would? Discovery is set between "The Cage" and "The Menagerie". Unless you're seriously attached to the reason mentioned in the Menagerie, it's only a mild retcon. On the other hand, given Kurtzman moved the series to the future specifically because of retcons, I could see this being quashed over retcons.

[Sir Will]

I was really hoping the end of Discovery Season 2 was just going to write the whole damn thing off and move on. Why they feel the need to have a Season 3 I cannot fathom.

Now the Pike-Enterprise show? That I'm interested in.

Enough seem to actually like it. Listening to the reviews I'm not sure why, but they do. Michael sounds insufferable so her as the focus of almost everything would be... ugh.

Maybe the change in scenery will help. But if it keeps being all about Michael....

[Makeshift Python]

Shifting the focus away from Michael to the entire cast would probably be the last true remnant of Fuller's original story concept being swept away. The focus on her made sense in the first season because the story was essentially about redemption, and supposedly Fuller only envisioned DISCO as a one-off season, with the second season introducing an entirely new cast and era. But, DISCO got a second season, so the focus on Michael remained in the formula but had to give a whole new storyline.

I'm not against the show focusing on a primary character. Not every Trek show needs to be strictly an ensemble (in fact, TOS was the outlier, being mainly about the trinity). But stories centering on Michael haven't been strong enough to make it all that compelling. If she's to remain the focal character, I'm not against it, I just want a story that serves her character better.

[clearspira]

So, I have a little theory: I think that the original plan for the season was that it would turn out for Pike to have been the Red Angel all along, and I think the decision to change that was probably made at the last minute, because throughout the season, they seemed to be foreshadowing it.

First there was Mike's initial vision of the angel, which morphed into Pike, then there were a number of shots of him that seemed deliberately aranged to give him the appearence of having wings. And then there was his vision of his future.

I think the plan was for Pike to take the suit and travel time for the future of mankind, despite knowing it would lead to him being horribly injured, leaving him as he would be in TOS. But then part way through the season they decided to do a spinoff with him & the Enterprise, and so needed to come up with reasons to have someone else wear the suit.

I have no actual proof of this, but it would explain all the last-minute asspulling right at the end of the season.

Hopefully the reason they did not go with that plot is that it would be yet another huge retcon.

It would? Discovery is set between "The Cage" and "The Menagerie". Unless you're seriously attached to the reason mentioned in the Menagerie, it's only a mild retcon. On the other hand, given Kurtzman moved the series to the future specifically because of retcons, I could see this being quashed over retcons.

A random radiation leak to saving the galaxy is not a mild retcon.

[Link8909]

From which perspective it's pretty impressive the plot almost flows together in a way that at least resembles a story.

As Chuck points out, though, there are some pretty big lingering problems that result such as the "what ever happened to the Mycelial Network problems?" and the Red Angel signals not lining up or being meaningful except "they happened so now they happen".

You can really feel the shift in both seasons when the writing takes a hard right into a new unrelated plot; while they don't negate the previous story, they do their hardest to hand off the baton and run away with a single element fast enough that a chunk of the audience forgets that they left some major baggage just sitting on the track.

Shifting the focus away from Michael to the entire cast would probably be the last true remnant of Fuller's original story concept being swept away. The focus on her made sense in the first season because the story was essentially about redemption, and supposedly Fuller only envisioned DISCO as a one-off season, with the second season introducing an entirely new cast and era. But, DISCO got a second season, so the focus on Michael remained in the formula but had to give a whole new storyline.

I'm not against the show focusing on a primary character. Not every Trek show needs to be strictly an ensemble (in fact, TOS was the outlier, being mainly about the trinity). But stories centering on Michael haven't been strong enough to make it all that compelling. If she's to remain the focal character, I'm not against it, I just want a story that serves her character better.

I agree with both of you, and honestly for me personally season ones overarching story line was far superior, interesting, and well executed better than season twos.

I do like a lot of the elements in season two, the sort of stand alone episodes like "New Eden" and "The Sound of Thunder", Captain Pike and his story line, Ensign Tilly's story line leading into adventures in the Mycelial Network, Doctor Culber returning and coming to terms with his resurrection, and just the overall production that brings many of the places they go to feel real and alive like Talos IV and Boreth.

But while I was interested in the Red Angel mystery when the season was first airing, I found the whole evil A.I. wanting to destroy all life not compelling of a villain, and I say this with no exaggeration, Control is literally just Skynet, and while I enjoyed Michael Burnham's redemption arc in season one as it was a personal journey of regret and atonement that ended with being able to made amends and on a hopeful message of not giving into fear, season two doubled down on her and literally made her the most important person ever, I'd rather Discovery had just focused on her reconnecting with her brother Spock as that was far more interesting than her getting muddled up in the time travel story, and the whole thing is just so convoluted in its execution that you're either along for the ride or you're done.

And honestly the only reason any of this is happening is to move Discovery into the future, so while season one had a overall theme about not giving into fear or prejudice, season twos main arc was setup to seasons three.

[clonetrooperkev]

Honestly I thought Control was gonna somehow be related to the Borg.

Like the final battle would send Control across the galaxy into the Delta Quadrant into the distant past. There it would be reduced to something simple and then slowly build its way into something completely different.

Then again, keeping the Borg's origin as a mystery is probably a better thing to do than just another thing we created that got screwed up. Better a mystery than a whoopsie doodle.

[Link8909]

Honestly I thought Control was gonna somehow be related to the Borg.

Like the final battle would send Control across the galaxy into the Delta Quadrant into the distant past. There it would be reduced to something simple and then slowly build its way into something completely different.

Then again, keeping the Borg's origin as a mystery is probably a better thing to do than just another thing we created that got screwed up. Better a mystery than a whoopsie doodle.

Definitely, I'm glade that the Borgs origin is still a mystery and I do hope it stays that way, I know that if there was one stated officially it won't be a satisfying answer, and speculating is also a lot of fun, personally with Star Trek Picard expanding on the artificial lifeforms that created V'Ger by having a whole coalition of artificial life similar to the Federation spanning galaxies, I think that the Borg was an experiment of trying to combine organic and artificial life by someone over there, maybe going wrong and being contained in the Milky Way Galaxy thanks to the Galactic Barrier, or deliberately put there as part of the experiment.