Star Trek Discovery: Season Three

[cloudkitt]

So season 3 has been a large improvement so far, and this Burn thing was a well-played way to justify the use of the spore drive.

But why couldn't it have just all gone inert? "IT ALL ASPLODED!!11!1!" is such a "nuTrek" try too hard to maximize teh dramaz decision.

Because if it all went inert, they would have quickly rebuilt. You need the nukes to drop for a Fallout-esque setting and that's what this is.

How could they have "quickly rebuilt" with only sublight travel...?

[Mabus]

That scene with Detmer having a nervous breakdown and ranting at Stamets because... he just sits in a chair and plays with his mushroom? What? I get that they are all angry and all (I guess pot and other pain relievers aren't something the doctor could issue even though TOS never had that problem, because we need cheap drama!), but why single out Stamets of all people? The guy was in a coma with a metal piece in his chest when she DeannaTroi'd the ship. A ship that she flew to follow Burnham into the future, who was nowhere to be found when they exited the wormhole. There was no buildup to the rant. She had zero interaction with Stamets since the season started. If anything she should be angry at Burnham since she's responsible for them being in this mess. But I guess since the precious Michael Burnham can do no wrong (or at least long-lasting wrong), why get angry at her?
In fact, what Detmer said in her her rant, applies better to Burnham than to Stamets. Oh my God, I get it! Detmer was actually angry at Michael, but since no one is allowed to say anything against her, she just unloads her frustrations on the first random person that pops in her mind, in this case Stamets. Brilliant!

So, as SF fans, we tend to overthink everything. Usually in SF, that's the right way to evaluate the work: there's tech that cancels out other tech, there's details that belie future plots and arcs.

Detmer's "little" freak-out isn't that. Detmer's freak-out is a human moment that's a product of stress, fear, relative isolation, jealousy at Stamets, ego (as she notes, pilots tend to be macho), and just all-around trauma.

Listening to her rant, she's been jealous of Stamets for his ability to "drive" the DASH across the galaxy while she has to stick to impulse or warp speeds. But all those other things are there, and her displacement to the 32nd century was basically the "straw" - more like an anvil - that broke the metaphorical camel's back.

She hasn't been OK since S3E2, and Culber is savvy enough to know it...but as the episode itself noted: people can only get help, when they're ready to accept it. She hasn't been ready, she's been trying to be the hotshot her pride demands her to be. It damn near broke her.

As to your theory that Detmer is angry at Michael, I'd say that once again my theory of "Fear of the Burnham Fastball Special" comes into play. Michael is, at a fundamental level, a loose cannon, whose "brilliant" ideas tend to spectacularly backfire. Saru getting her off the ship ASAP, especially before throwing the dinner, is probably going to develop into his go-to method of managing the pure chaos that is Science Commando Burnham.

The problem with Detmer's rant is that there was no build-up to it and something tells me by the next episode it will be completely forgotten or at least downplayed to jokes if it's ever mentioned again. For something that appeared to be important, having such a lame conclusion with no significant after effects feels like being cheated. DIS is serialized so each moment plays some role in the story. I know that people can lash out for a variety of reasons at other people in real life, but films aren't CCTV footage (and even those that are found footage are carefully edited to highlight the events and not be a one shot film), so each event, each character decision that happens on screen has to connect to something relevant inside the grander story, otherwise it's just a bunch of stuff happening for no reason.
But then again, given how often DIS tends to go all over the place, I shouldn't expect a grander story other than some stupid mystery box that gets a lame resolution, since that seems to be the NuTrek tradition.

[TGLS]

I'm honestly taking "All dilithium blowing up" as a little colloquiallly. Everyone's become insular, but it's not as if there are craters everywhere, and there's still people using dilithium (just not warp).

[Asvarduil]

That scene with Detmer having a nervous breakdown and ranting at Stamets because... he just sits in a chair and plays with his mushroom? What? I get that they are all angry and all (I guess pot and other pain relievers aren't something the doctor could issue even though TOS never had that problem, because we need cheap drama!), but why single out Stamets of all people? The guy was in a coma with a metal piece in his chest when she DeannaTroi'd the ship. A ship that she flew to follow Burnham into the future, who was nowhere to be found when they exited the wormhole. There was no buildup to the rant. She had zero interaction with Stamets since the season started. If anything she should be angry at Burnham since she's responsible for them being in this mess. But I guess since the precious Michael Burnham can do no wrong (or at least long-lasting wrong), why get angry at her?
In fact, what Detmer said in her her rant, applies better to Burnham than to Stamets. Oh my God, I get it! Detmer was actually angry at Michael, but since no one is allowed to say anything against her, she just unloads her frustrations on the first random person that pops in her mind, in this case Stamets. Brilliant!

So, as SF fans, we tend to overthink everything. Usually in SF, that's the right way to evaluate the work: there's tech that cancels out other tech, there's details that belie future plots and arcs.

Detmer's "little" freak-out isn't that. Detmer's freak-out is a human moment that's a product of stress, fear, relative isolation, jealousy at Stamets, ego (as she notes, pilots tend to be macho), and just all-around trauma.

Listening to her rant, she's been jealous of Stamets for his ability to "drive" the DASH across the galaxy while she has to stick to impulse or warp speeds. But all those other things are there, and her displacement to the 32nd century was basically the "straw" - more like an anvil - that broke the metaphorical camel's back.

She hasn't been OK since S3E2, and Culber is savvy enough to know it...but as the episode itself noted: people can only get help, when they're ready to accept it. She hasn't been ready, she's been trying to be the hotshot her pride demands her to be. It damn near broke her.

As to your theory that Detmer is angry at Michael, I'd say that once again my theory of "Fear of the Burnham Fastball Special" comes into play. Michael is, at a fundamental level, a loose cannon, whose "brilliant" ideas tend to spectacularly backfire. Saru getting her off the ship ASAP, especially before throwing the dinner, is probably going to develop into his go-to method of managing the pure chaos that is Science Commando Burnham.

The problem with Detmer's rant is that there was no build-up to it ...

While the rest of your post I can't argue so much with, this part is provably incorrect. Starting with S3 E2 Detmer is visibly "off" on the bridge and in sickbay, with what appears to be shellshock (which, also figures into things.) It's been small things that, because Burnham tends to warp the narrative around her, haven't been apparent...but they're there. I can't honestly even say that they're subtle, either - the episodes don't give Detmer speaking lines, but various characters comment on her general behavior.

With that said, though, DISCO hasn't been as bad as Trek used to be with discarding things that happen in one episode. In DISCO, more and more, actions have been having lasting consequences in all areas of the narrative - socially, technologically, strategically. I think Detmer managing her freak-outs is going to be perhaps a C plot in the season, but I could also be wrong. I wasn't expecting a mere mortal bridge bunny like her to get any character development for another season, or for Burnham to be sidelined nearly entirely back in S3 E2. This ain't your daddy's Star Trek.

[Link8909]

So season 3 has been a large improvement so far, and this Burn thing was a well-played way to justify the use of the spore drive.

But why couldn't it have just all gone inert? "IT ALL ASPLODED!!11!1!" is such a "nuTrek" try too hard to maximize teh dramaz decision.

Because if it all went inert, they would have quickly rebuilt. You need the nukes to drop for a Fallout-esque setting and that's what this is.

How could they have "quickly rebuilt" with only sublight travel...?

The way I see it, while the Federation wouldn't have rebuilt as quickly with sub-light speeds, it would have rebuilt nonetheless, with as large as Starfleets fleet is, eventually ships would have coordinated with each other and found new ways to travel, even if they were spread out and couldn't regroup, the strength of the fleet would remain, however the Burn destroying most starships, that takes away that strength, leaving the once powerful Starfleet only a few ships and little manpower to rebuild.

[Zatman]

The dilithium going inert could easily cause all the warp cores to explode. If dilithium controls, moderates, whatever, the matter/antimatter reaction, and it suddenly went inert, that means the reactors all instantly lost the ability to control the reaction. Think about a rocket, the combustion chamber confines the controlled combustion of the propellants, but if the reaction is suddenly uncontrolled (pressure surge, mixture imbalance, etc.) the engine will likely tear itself apart.

As to Detmer, speaking as someone who actually has anxiety and depression and probably PTSD (stuff from childhood) I can definitely see her reaction. Sometimes, we just explode. We look fine, everyone thinks we're fine, then suddenly we have an outburst at the smallest of things. I've screamed (literally) some pretty vile things at stuff as innocuous as a piece of wood, or a wrench, a traffic light, whereas 5 minutes before everything was "normal" at least outwardly. Yes, they could have done a better job with the build-up, personal logs, trashing her quarters, something in "private" so we as an audience can see the build up. But to me, what happened isn't out of line.

[Mabus]

That scene with Detmer having a nervous breakdown and ranting at Stamets because... he just sits in a chair and plays with his mushroom? What? I get that they are all angry and all (I guess pot and other pain relievers aren't something the doctor could issue even though TOS never had that problem, because we need cheap drama!), but why single out Stamets of all people? The guy was in a coma with a metal piece in his chest when she DeannaTroi'd the ship. A ship that she flew to follow Burnham into the future, who was nowhere to be found when they exited the wormhole. There was no buildup to the rant. She had zero interaction with Stamets since the season started. If anything she should be angry at Burnham since she's responsible for them being in this mess. But I guess since the precious Michael Burnham can do no wrong (or at least long-lasting wrong), why get angry at her?
In fact, what Detmer said in her her rant, applies better to Burnham than to Stamets. Oh my God, I get it! Detmer was actually angry at Michael, but since no one is allowed to say anything against her, she just unloads her frustrations on the first random person that pops in her mind, in this case Stamets. Brilliant!

So, as SF fans, we tend to overthink everything. Usually in SF, that's the right way to evaluate the work: there's tech that cancels out other tech, there's details that belie future plots and arcs.

Detmer's "little" freak-out isn't that. Detmer's freak-out is a human moment that's a product of stress, fear, relative isolation, jealousy at Stamets, ego (as she notes, pilots tend to be macho), and just all-around trauma.

Listening to her rant, she's been jealous of Stamets for his ability to "drive" the DASH across the galaxy while she has to stick to impulse or warp speeds. But all those other things are there, and her displacement to the 32nd century was basically the "straw" - more like an anvil - that broke the metaphorical camel's back.

She hasn't been OK since S3E2, and Culber is savvy enough to know it...but as the episode itself noted: people can only get help, when they're ready to accept it. She hasn't been ready, she's been trying to be the hotshot her pride demands her to be. It damn near broke her.

As to your theory that Detmer is angry at Michael, I'd say that once again my theory of "Fear of the Burnham Fastball Special" comes into play. Michael is, at a fundamental level, a loose cannon, whose "brilliant" ideas tend to spectacularly backfire. Saru getting her off the ship ASAP, especially before throwing the dinner, is probably going to develop into his go-to method of managing the pure chaos that is Science Commando Burnham.

The problem with Detmer's rant is that there was no build-up to it ...

While the rest of your post I can't argue so much with, this part is provably incorrect. Starting with S3 E2 Detmer is visibly "off" on the bridge and in sickbay, with what appears to be shellshock (which, also figures into things.) It's been small things that, because Burnham tends to warp the narrative around her, haven't been apparent...but they're there. I can't honestly even say that they're subtle, either - the episodes don't give Detmer speaking lines, but various characters comment on her general behavior.

With that said, though, DISCO hasn't been as bad as Trek used to be with discarding things that happen in one episode. In DISCO, more and more, actions have been having lasting consequences in all areas of the narrative - socially, technologically, strategically. I think Detmer managing her freak-outs is going to be perhaps a C plot in the season, but I could also be wrong. I wasn't expecting a mere mortal bridge bunny like her to get any character development for another season, or for Burnham to be sidelined nearly entirely back in S3 E2. This ain't your daddy's Star Trek.

What I meant by build-up is that we're only shown scenes where she's clearly affected by something traumatic, but she doesn't do anything, she's just...there, doing nothing. We know something serious is bothering her, but there is no development to her state. It just repeats like it's copy-pasted. And then it just blows up midway through the episode and gets resolved at the end of the same episode. So... what was the point of all that? Trauma is a serious issue, not some bad mood you just shrug off. If it got resolved by the end of the episode (and without some magic drug), then it's clear it wasn't something serious, it just means she was a bit angry. Which means the writers lied to us. There was no need to worry about the character because there was nothing serious in the first place. So why would I care if it was something she could just brush it off by venting her anger for like 1 minute? Why should I be emotionally invested for what is essentially a red herring? Because that would mean I'm wasting my emotional energy on literally nothing.

[Link8909]

As to Detmer, speaking as someone who actually has anxiety and depression and probably PTSD (stuff from childhood) I can definitely see her reaction. Sometimes, we just explode. We look fine, everyone thinks we're fine, then suddenly we have an outburst at the smallest of things. I've screamed (literally) some pretty vile things at stuff as innocuous as a piece of wood, or a wrench, a traffic light, whereas 5 minutes before everything was "normal" at least outwardly. Yes, they could have done a better job with the build-up, personal logs, trashing her quarters, something in "private" so we as an audience can see the build up. But to me, what happened isn't out of line.

Agreed, I can also attest to this, I'm on the Autistic spectrum, specifically Asperger's syndrome, which lead me to developing OCD and the constant concerns of germs and contamination at a young age, but because I see people who are more worse off than me, I kept all those issues to myself and tried to cope with them on my own without burdening my family or other people with my problems similar to Detmer, however that lead to the OCD getting worse and worse, and much like Detmer, even having my own nervous breakdowns from time to time caused by simple things, fortunately they were never directed at other people and were only at myself and my own frustrations and self-loathing that mostly resulted at me hitting myself.

[Link8909]

While the rest of your post I can't argue so much with, this part is provably incorrect. Starting with S3 E2 Detmer is visibly "off" on the bridge and in sickbay, with what appears to be shellshock (which, also figures into things.) It's been small things that, because Burnham tends to warp the narrative around her, haven't been apparent...but they're there. I can't honestly even say that they're subtle, either - the episodes don't give Detmer speaking lines, but various characters comment on her general behavior.

With that said, though, DISCO hasn't been as bad as Trek used to be with discarding things that happen in one episode. In DISCO, more and more, actions have been having lasting consequences in all areas of the narrative - socially, technologically, strategically. I think Detmer managing her freak-outs is going to be perhaps a C plot in the season, but I could also be wrong. I wasn't expecting a mere mortal bridge bunny like her to get any character development for another season, or for Burnham to be sidelined nearly entirely back in S3 E2. This ain't your daddy's Star Trek.

Agreed, and I feel that season three so far has done a great job at having events from each episode or events from past seasons matter and have consequences, from something simple as seeing the ship being repaired at the start of the last two episodes, to Detmer and the overall crews mental health issues from being alone in the future.

Speaking of shell-shock and Detmer exploding at dinner, that somehow reminded me of the first episode of When The Boat Comes In, when a shell-shocked ex-soldier from the Great War was walking by some kids, one of them started to run a stick alone a metal fence, the soldier collapse as the sound was very similar to a machine gun, the children saw this and they continued to torment him, only for the soldier to then chase them and then violently beats one of the kids, and when the main character hears about this, he finds the poor man barricaded himself in a bedroom clutching a stick as if it was a rifle, and later lamented on how that man would never hurt a child, but because of his trauma, as far as he knew the ex-soldier was attacking a German.

[CharlesPhipps]

How could they have "quickly rebuilt" with only sublight travel...?

The same way they've rebuilt space travel in the setting as is? We had multiple non-dilithium systems in the setting as is, starting with the Fungus Drive but also including the Romulan singularity drives. They also have set up dilithium is still in use.

Besides, if they only have sublight travel period, then the difference between "sudden explosion" would be "mass starvation and trillions dead due to interdependent planets collapsing."

Which is 100x worse.

The Burn blew up all the existing starships but is far far less horrifying than losing warp speed.