TNG - Half a Life

[Robovski]

Refusing to retire is only half the problem. The other half is that the Boomers pulled the ladders up behind them because they got theirs and now we can't afford those unions, pensions, benefits, healthcare, housing...

[clearspira]

Refusing to retire is only half the problem. The other half is that the Boomers pulled the ladders up behind them because they got theirs and now we can't afford those unions, pensions, benefits, healthcare, housing...

That implies that they did so deliberately. Maybe some did, others just lived their lives.

Anyway, I would say that immigration and the global market did more to harm job prospects than old people. One old person will always just be one old person; but immigration and the ability to create and ship something from literally anywhere in the world created what is essentially an unlimited pool of workers. If your job is low skilled, your employer can literally replace you overnight which also means that your employer does not need to bother with enticing you with perks and benefits. Don't like what is on offer, i'm sure someone will come along who will. That wasn't the case back in the fifties when work required more skill than a middle school level of pushing a button on a keyboard.

And if we REALLY get deep on this, the other difference between now and boomer days is that the job pool is no longer majority male. Feminism doubled the available worker pool thus increasing competition for jobs. I'm not saying that is a bad thing before anyone accuses me of anything, i'm merely noting that the reasons for the decrease in job availability has far more to do with surplus workers and far less to do with ''those dastardly, mean boomers plotting to keep Gen X,Y,Z,Alpha down.'' This is a subject that requires one to look at a broad picture.

[Laeril]

Not gonna lie, I'm rather jealous that you got to have your grandma around for such a good chunk of your life, Chuck. I had my maternal grandmother and paternal grandfather die within days of each other while I was still a bun in the oven. My paternal grandmother died when I was seven. My maternal grandfather died this January of a staph infection.

I'm sorry your grandmother was so lonely during her final days, but I'm glad that she appreciated what you do for a living. And don't forget to cherish her memory.

[Madner Kami]

Refusing to retire is only half the problem. The other half is that the Boomers pulled the ladders up behind them because they got theirs and now we can't afford those unions, pensions, benefits, healthcare, housing...

That implies that they did so deliberately. Maybe some did, others just lived their lives.

Anyway, I would say that immigration and the global market did more to harm job prospects than old people. One old person will always just be one old person; but immigration and the ability to create and ship something from literally anywhere in the world created what is essentially an unlimited pool of workers. If your job is low skilled, your employer can literally replace you overnight which also means that your employer does not need to bother with enticing you with perks and benefits. Don't like what is on offer, i'm sure someone will come along who will. That wasn't the case back in the fifties when work required more skill than a middle school level of pushing a button on a keyboard.

And if we REALLY get deep on this, the other difference between now and boomer days is that the job pool is no longer majority male. Feminism doubled the available worker pool thus increasing competition for jobs. I'm not saying that is a bad thing before anyone accuses me of anything, i'm merely noting that the reasons for the decrease in job availability has far more to do with surplus workers and far less to do with ''those dastardly, mean boomers plotting to keep Gen X,Y,Z,Alpha down.'' This is a subject that requires one to look at a broad picture.

That, plus automation. Most new jobs having been created in the last couple of decades were jobs where you need a higher education, while automation killed workplaces either by directly replacing a simple worker or enhancing the productivity of the remaining workers so much.

[Riedquat]

No point in blaming anyone for living their lives, although failing to acknowledge some of the problems counts against some of them. "We were promised this level of pension, so we won't take the cuts, those working now should fork out more that they'll never see" is something I've heard and have no respect for.

Living longer is a good thing, it has its downsides but they're something society really needs to figure out, rather than shying away from them so much that it becomes possible to even entertain the idea of ending life short whilst there might still be quality of life remaining. That's the story-relevant part. Moving on from that, on average everyone needs to put in enough during their life to support them cradle to grave, even if some of that is managed in practice by paying for your children just as your parents paid for you. And the modern world is easily productive enough to be able to do that, the problem is everyone is unwilling to balance it out by having a bit less now for more later. So we end up with a system that has to have continual expansion just to stay still, which is unsustainable and will blow up in our faces sooner or later.

"It's always worked before" is a counter-argument sometimes heard, but not a very persuasive one. The rate of change pre-Industrial Revolution was so slow that "always" was "nothing much changing" for a long time. And the industrial changes brought a change from a situation where barely able to scrap by was the norm (and the benefits took a while to filter through - they're still a long way short of reaching everyone). But we got hooked on that rapid change, kept trying to push more relying on an ever-increasing number of people and ever more rapid use of resources, but for what purpose are we still doing it?

Automation is a great example of what's gone wrong. If things were sensible it would simply enable all of us to work less (I'm putting aside my general large dislike of having machines doing things people are capable of doing). But we've trapped ourselves in a system where it's impossible to spread those results, so it's mostly just another factor in the race to the bottom, not being done for any reason other than every business has to to avoid being out-competed.

Where was that ramble going? Trying to bring it back round to being vaguely on topic, I think the point is that age and generational divides aren't a problem -what we're seeing is really the fallout from the more fundamental problems revealing itself in them, a symptom vs disease situation.

[Poipoi]

I'm glad Chuck reviewed this episode. This is one of the best Lwaxana stores because they show her as a person and not just a caricature.

It is also an interesting look at age and how beliefs/customs can be so indoctrinated that going against it causes great upset. This man could have been the one to save their world. Now the fate of their planet is more uncertain. Yet, we don't know how quickly his race gets sick. How quickly they go from mentally sound, to helpless.

My mom is in the first stages of dementia. At the start of this year, she could walk on her own and only needed help with sweaters/coats because she had slight trouble. Then 3 rough months happened and, due to different health issues, she has trouble walking and needs to be watched. That is how fast someone can go downhill. ( Note: Would I want her to do ritual suicide? no )

I really like this episode because I don't get this " This side is right because we wrote them as right. " We can really all talk about it and the subjects it brings up. It gives us a chance to see a recurring character in a new light.

[Thebestoftherest]

I'm glad Chuck reviewed this episode. This is one of the best Lwaxana stores because they show her as a person and not just a caricature.

It is also an interesting look at age and how beliefs/customs can be so indoctrinated that going against it causes great upset. This man could have been the one to save their world. Now the fate of their planet is more uncertain. Yet, we don't know how quickly his race gets sick. How quickly they go from mentally sound, to helpless.

My mom is in the first stages of dementia. At the start of this year, she could walk on her own and only needed help with sweaters/coats because she had slight trouble. Then 3 rough months happened and, due to different health issues, she has trouble walking and needs to be watched. That is how fast someone can go downhill. ( Note: Would I want her to do ritual suicide? no )

I really like this episode because I don't get this " This side is right because we wrote them as right. " We can really all talk about it and the subjects it brings up. It gives us a chance to see a recurring character in a new light.

It does say who right or wrong just what is. I wish we could get a sequel to see if the lost of their life would have cost their futute.

[Aotrs Commander]

Okay. I actually had to stop the video at the point Chuck talked about his grandmother to come here and type this up.

First off and most importantly: Chuck - my deepest and sincerest condolences.

I know exactly where you are. My grandmother (my last surviving grandparent) died in June. She was 93. She'd been housebound for a long time, but ever week, we - that is me, my Mum and one or both of my sisters (with their kids), and my Dad once he retired - would go around and take her out to dinner.

She detiorated within a couple of weeks of the lockdown starting - faster than I was expecting. We had no option (since my mother is herself disabled) but to send her into care, since it simply wasn't possible for her to be looked after 24-seven, even with carers coming in four times a day. And we knew that once she went in, she wasn't going to come back out again. I knew, that last night me and my Dad had to go around and get the paramedics because she'd somehow fallen out of bed (I do not even know how, since she couldn't get in and out herself)... I knew that it would be the last time I saw her. I said goodbye when we left, not "see you" as I almost always do otherwise.

I am sure that her end was hastened by not being able to see the great-grandkids. She was getting very forgetful but really until the last maybe less-than-a-year to six months, she was still bright and herself. She might not have made it this far even without that, but I reckon we'd have had just a little longer. She always said she considered herself lucky, because we did our damndest to make sure she was well-looked after, so I comfort myself with the thought that, if at the end, she died before she died, it was only a merciful scant month. And at least she did see my youngest nephew, born in Februrary, a few times.



Both my parents are over sixty, as is one my materal uncles and my paternal aunt. Mum struggles with fibromyalgia and the lockdown has been very hard for her, not to be able to see her other childen (I live at home) and her grandchilden. My Dad is active as he's ever been (he can never sit still even at the best of times) - he never has enough time in the day for all the things he wants to do.



I did not like this episode. I always found the culture in question in this episode objectionable, even when I was, like fourteen or something (we didn't get TNG on the UK until 1990 and by the point we'd hit season four, we were on to getting it on video) and I VERY definitely find it more than objectionable now I'm 41.

(Right, back to finishing the episode, I just had to get that out now.)

*finishes watching*

So, yeah. When you think of people like Christopher Lee or Sir David Attenborough (who is still going strong!) Or Alan Rickman or Sir Pterry - both over 60 when they died and by all considered way too soon?

A society that just makes all those people and their contriubitions commit suicide?

If you will all forgive me dipping into the expletives (which I don't generally do in polite conversation on the internets): FUCK those guys. With a rusty spanner.



(Right, will now go back and read thread...!)



(And for explict clarity? You should not force someone who is sufficiently ill, infirm and/or in pain below what they feel is sufficient quality of life to *have* go on existing, either (assuming they are lucid enough to make that decision). That is, ultimately, THEIR life the one and only thing that is truly theirs. It is never a decision to be made lightly, or in haste, but they should be allowed to decide. (Ideally, your health system should be functional enough that no-one should ever HAVE to be in the position for anyone to have to make that decision in the first place, but humans can't collectively manage to, as one wise mechanoid scholar once noted, lead androids to a picnic, so it will occur.))



Edit:

The Episode:

You know, I can't help but think of how Kirk would have handled a society in which people are compelled to commit suicide for no reason ("A Taste of Armageddon")? Or people dying just because they hit a certain age (like in "Miri")?

It is almost like the premise of this episode is something that the old series would have gone out of their way to stop.

It would hjave involved Kick punching someone (in a ripped shirt) - probably that head minister gu6y or something - until they collectively stopped being stupid and it would have been GLORIOUS.

Ssh, ssh, I don't want to hear arguements to contrary, I just want to ehoy that image for a moment...

...

...

Okay, I'm done, carry on...!

[Ikiry0]

It does say who right or wrong just what is. I wish we could get a sequel to see if the lost of their life would have cost their futute.

Honestly, I think it's better without a sequel. Leaves it uncertain instead of coming down definitively if that doomed the planet or not.

[AllanO]

I really like this episode because I don't get this " This side is right because we wrote them as right. " We can really all talk about it and the subjects it brings up. It gives us a chance to see a recurring character in a new light.

I was thinking that this episode is similar to the High Ground in that it does not have some message about the issues it raises that you need to hear instead it is content to not have some definitive opinion on the issues it raises and but rather try to tell a good story. And thus the story in Half a Life is more about about defying tradition, the personal costs of this, character dynamics, contemplating old age, death and so on.

The story makes the planet in Half a Life have a very stark tradition so that we don't get bogged down in details of that debate but rather the character's responses to it. Likewise in High Ground we don't get bogged down in the details of the history separatist movements grievances and tactics etc. because it is inessential to the story they wanted to tell.