Winter wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:04 am
You're not being a realist you're being a pessimist, there's a difference. I'm an optimist but one who works to remember that reality doesn't always play nice. I'm also a minor history buff and I know that reality is often unrealistic.
It doesn't, and yet we can all agree LF has had very bad business practices. I personally don't care what they call canon, since it's always fluid, open to changing interpretations. But they act like anything that's not canon isn't worth continuing, and that's one of their biggest mistakes.
Winter wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:04 am
As I've said, enough times that even someone with OCD is getting tired of saying this, the pattern for what will happen to Star Wars is one that has been done before. It happened with DC, Marvel, Doctor Who and Star Trek. All rebooted their continuity at one point or anther and ALL returned to the original continuity.
Yeah, but how they returned to the OG continuity matters far more than if it happens at all. I don't think SWL TV shows or movies would work, and Mr. Filoni was never interested in adhering to the lore. As for Mr. Favreau? He's fine, but still has a lot to prove himself in that regard. I think for LF to return to SWL is a mistake, they should just leave it to their business partners at Del Rey and Marvel. Look at how well Marvel #108 sold. Only two DSWC issues sold better. Though it's no surprise after six years of sparse SWL content, I'm incredibly leery of unnecessary retcons, which is likely to happen if they return to an era that's popular only because it sells. And I don't want more rehashes in the SWL continuity, we're already getting that with DSW.
Winter wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:04 am
And yes, Ahsoka WILL die at some point. She might be brought back every character is killed off at some point. This has happened before, it will happen again.
We shall see. I personally think it's not going to happen. At best, you'll get a Disney-style ambiguous death, in case she were to ever return. Leave that door open, as we saw in late SGA. You are aware that Mr. Filoni approved a comic where an underage Ahsoka was sexualized? Put into bondage type chains. It's why it feels a bit creepy to me. He's too attached to his character to let her die because he comes off as a fanfiction writer, in style, tone, and content. And it wouldn't surprise me to learn that he's written his own fanfiction prior to joining the ranks of LF.
Winter wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:04 am
As for Favreau statement, all we can do is wait and see. One thing to keep in mind is every long term plan always falls apart. Sure, Favreau and Filoni could stick to their guns but given the growing distaste for TDST and that the World Between World has been given a little bit more attention (The Lego Star Wars Holiday Special and the Ahsoka series may involve it) the idea of a in universe reboot is still on the table.
SWL is incredibly dense, so dense I don't think either of them could do it justice at least in the way they would handle it. They would return to the Rebellion era or Old Republic, because that sells, and given that this is essentially time travel, it's more overwriting of past content with their s***. I think you are far overstating how imaginative they are. Shouldn't SWR be proof of that? Besides, the temple at the end of SWR was destroyed. The dimension may exist, but it's inaccessible for now. And I think that's a good thing. This would not be SWL if they revisited it, but SWL tailored for casuals. It's why I think they prefer sticking to the DSWC content, because there's less constraints, and SWR proves Mr. Filoni, for one, crumbles under those.
I mean, with his long experience working at LF at this point, Mr. Filoni would have no interest in writing for SWL because he gets a lot of criticism when that happens, except he can't turn around and blame Mr. Lucas for them this time. SWL is not made for the kind of audiences they or even Disney is seeking. I cringe whenever I remember that he'd attempted to recanonize the Yuuzhan Vong in SWR. That would have been a disaster. The Vong would have been stripped of all that made them cool. I'm very happy it didn't pan out.
Keep in mind one thing, there is a difference between the JediPaxis leaks and what those clickbait YouTubers "reported" during the summer. The JediPaxis, IMO at least, was just a disgruntled employee who'd had enough and was all "HERE!" on social media, as to who it is, we can't say. But the "rumors" they intend to retcon the DSWST come secondhand from Overlord DVD, and even he admitted that you need to be skeptical about it. It's very easy to wonder if he even has insiders at LF with this. So even though the JediPaxis leaks were legit, I remain skeptical about this. If you really love SWL, then how are you okay with them just decanonizing the ST into SWL? That is what he said. What this strikes me as was Mr. Filoni going to Ms. Kennedy and asking, "Hey, can I use the WBW to put Ahsoka into the sequels?" and she was all, "... nah."
Because past those rumors, there's no indication they want to retcon them at all. My own personal theory is someone at LF "reported" that to Overlord hoping it would spread as the way to bring people aboard for TM when Luke, Boba, Ahsoka, all these Legacy characters returned, otherwise they would be thinking about precisely where it leads. But there's no proof, it's just a pet belief of mine.
Winter wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:04 am
And keep in mind the number of times a series made promises to lead into certain events only for something to change that redirected everything. Sometimes it was because the story went in a new direction, sometimes it's a result of the higher ups ordering a change and sometimes someone new comes in and takes the story in a whole new direction.
All true. And I'll admit, I'm personally interested to see what leads Luke to the path he had in TLJ, since I don't want the DSWST to be retconned. At least not a hard retcon. I know that movie is highly divisive, but I also think what made SW so great was its interconnectivity. That seems like it has no place on the agenda anymore except "canon is whatever you want" as stated by Mr. Martin. It's why I take such issues with Mr. Filoni, since his writing is all fanservice with no thought put into it about the consequences or how this fits in the lore. I've already talked about the brain-chips, but there's other examples you could name.
I think for SW to have any kind of future they need to double down and keep the Luke we saw in TLJ, explore how he got there. I think that it's related to Grogu somehow, like perhaps Grogu is killed after he bonds with him, that Kylo is being driven down a dark path at his academy, which is what leads to his actions as seen in TLJ. It could even be a homage to the Revan novel, where the titular character was manipulated by Emperor Vitiate. Just apply that to Palpatine/Snoke here. Because the characters we knew still exist in SWL, unchanged, and if that interconnectivity breaks down, it illustrates that DSWC has no future, and that could spill over into SWL. Where it's different fiefdoms of the LF empire becoming their own competing iterations of canon.
It's ironic for all of LF's preaching on canon, they don't care about it. I will state, however, while he has much to do to prove himself in this regard, I'd take Mr. Favreau helming new SWL stories rather than Mr. Filoni. We already know what he does and how he'd do it.
Winter wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:04 am
Again this happened with DC, Marvel, Doctor Who and Star Trek. All of them had a plan that was thrown aside because of the following reasons I pointed out. People are insane and no one has a fool proof plan.
SWL may be picking up traction among fans disappointed over TLJ, but they haven't read the books or comics. For example, thinking TCW was made to be a part of SWL. It wasn't. Mr. Filoni made this very clear during TCW's run from his own words. I mean, look at the disparate iterations between events in preestablished lore and TCW.
We see Anakin's Knighting in the CWMMP, whereas in TCW, he's already a Knight and no one comments on it, that takes place "swiftly after the Battle of Geonosis!" which implies only a few months have passed, while in the past lore, it was two years.
There's the final fate of Chancellor Valorum, for example, where he returns to try and warn Bail Organa of Palpatine's intentions, and is manipulated onto a transport which explodes, blamed on CIS terrorism to help further more security crackdowns. In TCW, Valorum appears alive and well, retired and well, and set chronologically after the Star of Iskin incident in SWL.
If their only reason for latching onto SWL is that they think Mr. Filoni should write for it, then that's the wrong move. I was always more interested in the spin-off material than the primary canon, and the NEU already can't keep its s*** straight with so many TV shows and movies. It's why in six years, there's more continuity gaffes than the last forty years relative to the old EU. LF needs to stay away from SWL and free up Del Rey and Marvel to continue them. I think that's the path. DSWC is suited exactly to the audience they want, and SWL is custom-made for books and comics to the older fans.
It's so incredibly obvious, it's just astonishing to me they can't see this.
Winter wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:04 am
Neither of us can see the future but I study the past and that tends to give me the most reliable data on how things are going to turn out and 8 times out of 10 I'm usually right. I'm I right here? Well 8 times out of 10 isn't 100% but it's pretty damn close.
I grant you that they may return to the SWL eventually, but as I've said, I don't think, or hope, it will be as TV shows and movies. Mr. Filoni especially should remember all the criticism he got on TCW that he just blew back onto Mr. Lucas. I know Mr. Lucas was responsible for his own retcons, but if you look at the actual history of comments made by both of them during the production, it always boils down to Mr. Filoni saying "George believes this, George believes that," and Mr. Lucas says very little.
I think it speaks to a highly manipulative approach he has, using Mr. Lucas as a shield to deflect criticism and earn his favor to do whatever he wanted. The TCW featurettes back this up when he talks about the editing decisions he snuck past him and the things he got Mr. Lucas to agree to that he was hesitant to approve at first, like Mr. Lucas being in the "Ahsoka dies" camp. His insistence that he knows Mr. Lucas so well, when we know he's had a history of constantly changing his mind, just strikes me as smug egotism meant to legitimize himself to a fanbase that had a hard time accepting him.
I mean, he's said "George is the canon," and that's all he cares about, but Mr. Lucas is gone now. He's also said the primary canon is the TV shows and movies, which is where he writes, not books and comics. He had his chance to adhere to SWL continuity and didn't in 2008. He even admits he felt like he knew he was going to "take a big giant wrecking ball to continuity" back then. Those are just a few of the many remarks he's made since TCW began and ended. It's not a criticism on TCW's quality (the clone stuff is always good) so much as observing the policies of the management. It would be very hypocritical to return to SWL after all he's said about canon. And I hold him responsible for his own contributions to the fandom backlash against Mr. Lucas in the late aughts.
As to how SWL will return, I can't say, but me and others in the TSF and SWL fandom hope it's from Del Rey and Marvel, not LF. They haven't done much to particularly win us over in that regard. I hate to be a buzzkill, especially if something is bringing someone else joy and happiness, so I'll shut it off right here to avoid further repetition, at least for the moment.
