The Rise of Skywalker - Look What You Have Made

[Makeshift Python]

I'm just gonna say I'm all for this video.


youtu.be/IrMM33uHAo8



Made by the same guy who did this pretty excellent video on TLJ.


youtu.be/T2cBTLsWiDg

[Winter]

... I was open minded until he started blaming the fans for how Rise of Skywalker turned out. I mean, I don't like The Last Jedi but I didn't take my frustration out on the fans of that film and made my opinion clear that I didn't think that Rian Johnson understands Star Wars and that he altered all the characters to fit his writing style instead altering his writing style to match the character (Johnson's stories depend on characters being unlikable jerks so in order to TLJ to match that style he turned just about everyone into unlikable idiots). But that that's all I said, I can respect that people who like TLJ and have even had polite conversations with them and they've in turned respected my opinion.

These videos are just a repackaging of my oldest nemesis, what I like is fine there's just something wrong with you and what you like is inferior to what I like because I like "True" art that is more original. We'll ignore that the fact that Episodes 7, 8 and 9 are just a reskin of Episodes 4, 5 and 6 as they all hit the exact same plot and character points with only minor alterations and will ignore how TLJ kinda screwed over ROS by resolving most of the major plot points so the closing arc of the Trilogy was kinda doomed no matter what.

Will also ignore the fact that most of the fan reception for ROS wasn't as positive as many people think. Oh, sure it has a high rating on Rotten Tomato but it's Metacritic score is pretty much the same as it was for TLJ (in the 40s) and that fan reception across everywhere else is also not very positive. Even Honest Trailers noted that the reception was overall negative. People on this very site have noted the problems with the film.

The problem isn't the fans the problem the films kept trying to pander to fans since day one. Ever noticed that each film is made as a response to the last Star Wars film released. TFA was made to be more like the Original Trilogy and worked to destroyed everything Prequel related, then people said TFA was to much like A New Hope so they announced that TLJ would be weird and harder to predict, then everyone said that TLJ was to different so ROS was made to be as safe as possible.

Switching series for a moment in The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker, the game was seen as a mixed bag at the time of it's release so every game after it was made with what fans said they wanted in the next game. Wind Waker was to cartoony and lighthearted, so Twilight Princess was made to look more realistic and have a darker tone. Twilight Princess had tools that were underutilized and it's graphics didn't age as well as Wind Waker, Skyward Sword made sure to make every tool useful throughout the game and created an art style that was more like Wind Waker with the more realistic design from Twilight Princess. Skyward Sword was to linear and hand held the players to much, Breath of the Wild was as open ended as possible.

Breath of the Wild had to few Dungeons and a story that felt lack luster (it's actually a good story but to fragmented to enjoy IMO) Breath of the Wild's sequel has hinted at bringing back more traditional dungeons AND has hinted at a great emphases on story.

And yet all the 3D Zelda games have been well received with Wind Waker being Vindicated by History and seen as one of the best games in the series now with some saying it's the best 3D Zelda game ever. Listening to fans is NOT a bad thing as shown with Zelda and, contrary to what this reviewer might think so was Season 2 of the Mandalorian which was Very well received by critics and fans alike.

My main issue with this review is the same issue I had with Johnson's reason for why he made the film the way he did, that Star Wars needs to break away from tradition in order to survive and needs to not be chained by the past. Johnson himself has even said that he agrees with Kylo Ren's view that they need to let the past die and kill it if they have to because it's the only way you can be who you were meant to be. This, of course, fails for one reason that can best summed up with this old quote.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Insert The Disney Sequel Trilogy being just a copy and paste of the Original Trilogy jokes here.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I'm just gonna say I'm all for this video.

Just considering it is a 40+ minute video, can I get a descriptor, like anything up to an outline maybe?

[MerelyAFan]

I have to believe there's something in between interesting ideas that fall on their face like in Last Jedi and desperate attempts to please everyone in Rise of Skywalker that end up becoming a train wreck.

I'm not terribly fond of excess fanservice myself, but there are circumstances where it can be well executed. The Mandalorian probably is guilty of utilizing fan favorites in exciting set pieces, but it also has well done characters and a competent narrative overall. Not doing what many fans want you to do has no more inherent value than the inverse; its all a matter of what's in service to the story.

DS9 for example was in many ways against the grain of where Trek was at the time of its premiere and very much put many aspects of the Federation and Starfleet into more shades of gray. But it worked because it also showed their demonstrative values at times and was less about demonstrating why Kirk or Picard were wrong in their approaches in the past, and more that the ways those two did things weren't always practical for the position Sisko often found himself in.

A lot of the discourse around the sequel trilogy is a pain to navigate because you have fans ascribing malevolent motives to Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy with little evidence and an assumption by many online that the only reason fans are disinclined towards appreciating Last Jedi was because it took risks in its storytelling with their favorite characters.

It sucks that the viewpoints of "Johnson made an earnest attempt at a SW character story that didn't quite work" and "I'd love challenging depictions that do better than TLJ did" are so lost in the back and forth mudslinging.

[Beelzquill]

I haven't seen the Rise of Skywalker, but I wholly reject the idea that fans rightly decrying The Last Jedi is the sole reason ROS failed creatively.

[HumanXeroxMachine]

Yeah, I haven't seen Rise of Skywalker either and as someone who didn't really dig The Last Jedi my ideal follow up to it wasn't "Crippled Palpatine returns with a fleet of thousands of OP star destroyers oh and Rey is his granddaughter."

Blaming the fans who didn't like The Last Jedi for what The Rise of Skywalker ultimately became is just silly.

[Winter]

Let's take a look at his criticism that says that season 2 of the Mandalorian was the equivalent of dangling keys over a toddler, this gives the impression that he defaultly thinks that the audience that enjoyed The Mandalorian's second season are defaultly idiots and that the only way to truly enjoy something is if you are as smart and as thoughtful as he is.

When Linkara made his review for the Last Jedi he made it clear that people who didn't like TLJ were idiots because they didn't enjoy it and said that he only looked to share his opinion. Sure, I don't agree with a lot of his interpretations of the original Trio but that's his opinion and I can respect that.

The title of his Rise of Skywalker review is "Look what you made me do" a phrase used by abusers to get their victims to feel guilty for getting hit says everything. I don't like this and you should feel guilty for making it happen and because of that I am justified in insulting you and any thing positive you enjoy about this makes you stupid and you should feel ashamed for enjoying it.

I'm going to pretend that everyone who criticized all had valid points and the treatment of the cast and crew by a number of fans sending death threats is just stupid and amoral. But not everyone who dislikes TLJ or TDST as a whole isn't like that and assuming they are and trying to guilt trip fans for something that was pretty much out of their control does not make you better, it makes you an ass.

I made my feelings about TLJ and ROS as clear as possible and the films did not end up the way they did because of me. I didn't make Abrams and Terrio put Palpatine in the script, I didn't make Rey Palp's grandaugher and I sure as Hell didn't insist that the film makers do nothing with Finn and Poe.

It was Disney and Lucas film that decided to try and appease everyone and ended up pleasing no one. Don't blame the people for the actions of others.

[Makeshift Python]

Let's take a look at his criticism that says that season 2 of the Mandalorian was the equivalent of dangling keys over a toddler.

To be honest, that's how it came off to me when watching the season finale. It's the show telling you "YEAAAAH LOOK AT LUKE SKYWALKER FUCK UP A BUNCH OF DROIDS YEAAAAA BADASS!!!!!" It might as well have been a replay of watching Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon cut their way through the droid army in TPM. Only worse in the case of the show, because FakeLuke is just a deus ex machina that takes the agency completely away from the characters that we had been following.

I disliked it even more when they gave the same moment to Boba Fett in an earlier episode and the unnecessary Darth Vader scene in ROGUE ONE. It's as if Disney is trying to give you a version of those characters that you could only imagine in your heads all these years, because Lucas didn't care enough to portray them as unstoppable killing machines back in the day. I see what the show is trying to do, and I'm not going with it. Showing Boba Fett mow down a bunch of troopers isn't going to make me forget that he's a villain that aligned himself with gangsters that fed sex slaves to monsters.

[Winter]

To be honest, that's how it came off to me when watching the season finale. It's the show telling you "YEAAAAH LOOK AT LUKE SKYWALKER FUCK UP A BUNCH OF DROIDS YEAAAAA BADASS!!!!!" It might as well have been a replay of watching Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon cut their way through the droid army in TPM. Only worse in the case of the show, because FakeLuke is just a deus ex machina that takes the agency completely away from the characters that we had been following.

I can't agree that Luke is a Deus Ex Machina. It was made clear in The Jedi and The Tragedy that Grogu connecting through the Force would draw the attention of a Jedi that could train him and the arc of the season has been about Din trying to get Grogu to a Jedi so he could be trained. Is it fanservice, yes, but as someone who felt that Luke in TDST was done a disservice and acted VERY out of character it was greatly cathartic to see Luke acting like Luke and it should be noted that Mark Hamill himself has openly supported how Luke was handled in The Mandalorian.

As for the Boba Fett scene and the Vader hallway scene, while I get why both these scenes have people calling them fanservice again, it was just great to see these characters kick @$$ again and at least Boba and Luke's moments actually serve a plot purpose while Vader is pure fanservice. You could remove Vader's scene and lose nothing of value but Boba regaining his armor actually ties into his character from the Clone Wars and ties into Din's arc for the season which is him being confronted with what a "True" Mandalorian is.

And on a final note, the ability to project real looking version of yourself across the galaxy is something that was never hinted at in the main canon until now and will likely never be used again because of how lethal it is to the user and was done because Johnson had written the characters into a corner so Luke got an unexpected power to save the day. In other words, a Deus Ex Machina. And it was made to appease a certain part of the fandom who wanted to see something that they felt was in line with how a Jedi should act aka fanservice.

And if you like or even love those moments, more power to you, but in the end there is no real difference between Luke coming to save Grogu and Luke coming to save the Resistance except in how he does it and how the respective shows foreshadow and built up to that moment.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

From the perspective of Mando we watched him nearly get killed trying to take care of one of the robots. I get that most any droid in the universe is pretty old hat for what we've seen, but they established the power dynamic between our main characters and Luke Skywalker with a comparable scene that took half the time. I understood what they felt when they saw Luke.