The Rise of Skywalker - Look What You Have Made

[Makeshift Python]

To be honest, that's how it came off to me when watching the season finale. It's the show telling you "YEAAAAH LOOK AT LUKE SKYWALKER FUCK UP A BUNCH OF DROIDS YEAAAAA BADASS!!!!!" It might as well have been a replay of watching Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon cut their way through the droid army in TPM. Only worse in the case of the show, because FakeLuke is just a deus ex machina that takes the agency completely away from the characters that we had been following.

I can't agree that Luke is a Deus Ex Machina. It was made clear in The Jedi and The Tragedy that Grogu connecting through the Force would draw the attention of a Jedi that could train him and the arc of the season has been about Din trying to get Grogu to a Jedi so he could be trained.

I said Luke is a Deus Ex Machina not in the sense that his appearance wasn't set up but that he comes in and completely takes away control from the main characters. Once he shows up, the characters pretty much do nothing but watch in awe for the last five minutes or so.

Is it fanservice, yes, but as someone who felt that Luke in TDST was done a disservice and acted VERY out of character it was greatly cathartic to see Luke acting like Luke and it should be noted that Mark Hamill himself has openly supported how Luke was handled in The Mandalorian.

I disagree. As played in the show, Luke was basically a stuntman that could have been any other force user. There's nothing about the appearance that inherently feels like the Luke character. But if slicing up droids and saying "may the force be with you" is all that it takes, fair enough, I'm happy you got something that I didn't. I disagree that Luke acted out of character in TLJ. I think Johnson made the best possible choices he could with what Abrams specifically set up. I'm sure if was given the opportunity to do an EPISODE VII it would have turned out very different and build off of what the first six films laid out. But since TFA had the set up of Luke exiling himself, I thought TLJ took it to its most logical conclusion with Luke.

Besides, Hamill also openly supported TLJ too, but of course a lot of fans take his "I hated what they did with Luke" out of context.

As for the Boba Fett scene and the Vader hallway scene, while I get why both these scenes have people calling them fanservice again, it was just great to see these characters kick @$$ again and at least Boba and Luke's moments actually serve a plot purpose while Vader is pure fanservice. You could remove Vader's scene and lose nothing of value but Boba regaining his armor actually ties into his character from the Clone Wars and ties into Din's arc for the season which is him being confronted with what a "True" Mandalorian is.

Since I've never seen THE CLONE WARS, that arc for Boba really means nothing to me. Prior to this show, all he was was a hired gun by Jabba the Hutt.

And on a final note, the ability to project real looking version of yourself across the galaxy is something that was never hinted at in the main canon until now and will likely never be used again because of how lethal it is to the user and was done because Johnson had written the characters into a corner so Luke got an unexpected power to save the day. In other words, a Deus Ex Machina. And it was made to appease a certain part of the fandom who wanted to see something that they felt was in line with how a Jedi should act aka fanservice.

And if you like or even love those moments, more power to you, but in the end there is no real difference between Luke coming to save Grogu and Luke coming to save the Resistance except in how he does it and how the respective shows foreshadow and built up to that moment.

There's certainly a difference. In TLJ, he had a history and relationship with Kylo Ren that feels palpable, though I give more credit to the actors for selling that. In THE MANDALORIAN FakeLuke is just picking up a puppet that makes baby noises.

[Winter]

To be honest, that's how it came off to me when watching the season finale. It's the show telling you "YEAAAAH LOOK AT LUKE SKYWALKER FUCK UP A BUNCH OF DROIDS YEAAAAA BADASS!!!!!" It might as well have been a replay of watching Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon cut their way through the droid army in TPM. Only worse in the case of the show, because FakeLuke is just a deus ex machina that takes the agency completely away from the characters that we had been following.

I can't agree that Luke is a Deus Ex Machina. It was made clear in The Jedi and The Tragedy that Grogu connecting through the Force would draw the attention of a Jedi that could train him and the arc of the season has been about Din trying to get Grogu to a Jedi so he could be trained.

I said Luke is a Deus Ex Machina not in the sense that his appearance wasn't set up but that he comes in and completely takes away control from the main characters. Once he shows up, the characters pretty much do nothing but watch in awe for the last five minutes or so.

Is it fanservice, yes, but as someone who felt that Luke in TDST was done a disservice and acted VERY out of character it was greatly cathartic to see Luke acting like Luke and it should be noted that Mark Hamill himself has openly supported how Luke was handled in The Mandalorian.

I disagree. As played in the show, Luke was basically a stuntman that could have been any other force user. There's nothing about the appearance that inherently feels like the Luke character. But if slicing up droids and saying "may the force be with you" is all that it takes, fair enough, I'm happy you got something that I didn't. I disagree that Luke acted out of character in TLJ. I think Johnson made the best possible choices he could with what Abrams specifically set up. I'm sure if was given the opportunity to do an EPISODE VII it would have turned out very different and build off of what the first six films laid out. But since TFA had the set up of Luke exiling himself, I thought TLJ took it to its most logical conclusion with Luke.

Besides, Hamill also openly supported TLJ too, but of course a lot of fans take his "I hated what they did with Luke" out of context.

As for the Boba Fett scene and the Vader hallway scene, while I get why both these scenes have people calling them fanservice again, it was just great to see these characters kick @$$ again and at least Boba and Luke's moments actually serve a plot purpose while Vader is pure fanservice. You could remove Vader's scene and lose nothing of value but Boba regaining his armor actually ties into his character from the Clone Wars and ties into Din's arc for the season which is him being confronted with what a "True" Mandalorian is.

Since I've never seen THE CLONE WARS, that arc for Boba really means nothing to me. Prior to this show, all he was was a hired gun by Jabba the Hutt.

And on a final note, the ability to project real looking version of yourself across the galaxy is something that was never hinted at in the main canon until now and will likely never be used again because of how lethal it is to the user and was done because Johnson had written the characters into a corner so Luke got an unexpected power to save the day. In other words, a Deus Ex Machina. And it was made to appease a certain part of the fandom who wanted to see something that they felt was in line with how a Jedi should act aka fanservice.

And if you like or even love those moments, more power to you, but in the end there is no real difference between Luke coming to save Grogu and Luke coming to save the Resistance except in how he does it and how the respective shows foreshadow and built up to that moment.

There's certainly a difference. In TLJ, he had a history and relationship with Kylo Ren that feels palpable, though I give more credit to the actors for selling that. In THE MANDALORIAN FakeLuke is just picking up a puppet that makes baby noises.

Why do you insist on calling him FakeLuke, I'm sure he's De-aged but he's voiced by Hamill and for the most part there was an actor who was really there or is do me mean FakeLuke as in, Not the Luke from The Last Jedi?

Also, what Relationship? As an audience we're never seen Luke and Kylo interact until TLJ and we know next to nothing about said history other then Luke considered killing Kylo in his sleep. And personally I didn't get any real sense of connection. Also, your argument is the same as the one who made the review, I.E. "It's not just enough that I don't like it everyone who doesn't agree with me is wrong."

I made it clear that my opinion is JUST my opinion and while I don't like TLJ or TDST as a whole that doesn't make me right. I find Luke's Force Projection to be a Deus Ex Machina (which BTW I noticed you didn't bring up a counterargument for) given how the film doesn't establish or foreshadow it. And as for the difference in emotional pay-off.

Go and watch any reaction video of the last episode, fans are in tears when Luke comes to take Grogu away because they grew attached to the little guy and came to care about Din's relationship with him. And in regards to Boba's arc not mattering because you didn't see the Clones... Yeah, okay that's a valid point I just took it into account without thinking, my bad.

I respect that you like but please stop acting like everyone who enjoys the Mandalorian and don't like TLJ are all idiots who wouldn't know "True" are if it tapped us on our-slopping foreheads. That argument did not work with Mass Effect 3 and it's not working now. Just because you enjoy something others don't doesn't make you a better fan.

And again, I was open minded until he decided to blame ROS on people who had no real control over the outcome. Disney made the choice to rush the product through development and they're the ones who told the filmmakers to make the film a certain way.

[Makeshift Python]

The title of his Rise of Skywalker review is "Look what you made me do" a phrase used by abusers to get their victims to feel guilty for getting hit says everything. I don't like this and you should feel guilty for making it happen and because of that I am justified in insulting you and any thing positive you enjoy about this makes you stupid and you should feel ashamed for enjoying it.

It's actually just "Look What You Have Made", which is a direct quote from Palpatine in the film after he sucked enough lifeforce out of Rey and Ben.

For someone that's super obsessed with the sequel films that you create dozens of threads about it, I'm surprised you slipped on that one.

Why do you insist on calling him FakeLuke, I'm sure he's De-aged but he's voiced by Hamill and for the most part there was an actor who was really there or is do me mean FakeLuke as in, Not the Luke from The Last Jedi?

I'm definitely alluding to the poor f/x work. It looks like an effect that would have been made in the 90s.

Also, what Relationship? As an audience we're never seen Luke and Kylo interact until TLJ and we know next to nothing about said history other then Luke considered killing Kylo in his sleep. And personally I didn't get any real sense of connection. Also, your argument is the same as the one who made the review, I.E. "It's not just enough that I don't like it everyone who doesn't agree with me is wrong."

Okay then... I disagree with your opinion. I didn't think I had to state the obvious for you.

I find Luke's Force Projection to be a Deus Ex Machina (which BTW I noticed you didn't bring up a counterargument for) given how the film doesn't establish or foreshadow it.

The film established and foreshadowed it with Kylo Ren and Rey's interacting.

Go and watch any reaction video of the last episode, fans are in tears when Luke comes to take Grogu away because they grew attached to the little guy and came to care about Din's relationship with him.

Honestly, good for them.

I respect that you like but please stop acting like everyone who enjoys the Mandalorian and don't like TLJ are all idiots who wouldn't know "True" are if it tapped us on our-slopping foreheads. That argument did not work with Mass Effect 3 and it's not working now. Just because you enjoy something others don't doesn't make you a better fan.

I never claimed to be a better fan, I just expect better from Star Wars, and THE MANDALORIAN playing it safe and easy doesn't really do it for me. I never played Mass Effect, so I have no idea what you're alluding to.

And again, I was open minded until he decided to blame ROS on people who had no real control over the outcome. Disney made the choice to rush the product through development and they're the ones who told the filmmakers to make the film a certain way.

On that regard, I actually blame them all. The angry vocal fans that have been entitled since 1999, Abrams for his lack of imagination, and Disney for rushing the film instead of giving it the time it needed especially in light of Fisher's passing.

The original draft by Trevororo (however you spell his name) wasn't perfect but it at least felt like it was trying to aim for something new and could have been something to build off of. Instead Abrams threw it all away so he could just replay the beats of ROTJ and that IMO hurt the sequel trilogy far more than anything else.

[MerelyAFan]

I'm reluctant to fully judge the use of Luke in the Mandalorian given that the series is still going and who's to say his appearance won't get further development along the line?

I guess I'm odd in that I didn't view Skywalker's appearance in the finale as an authorial move done to stick it to the Last Jedi's portrayal nor a outright cynical studio move done to appease entitled fans. Much like Rian Johnson with TLJ, I think this was Favreau and company's genuine story choice, just that for the purposes of this narrative the latter differed in depiction from the former.

[Makeshift Python]

I'm reluctant to fully judge the use of Luke in the Mandalorian given that the series is still going and who's to say his appearance won't get further development along the line?

I guess I'm odd in that I didn't view Skywalker's appearance in the finale as an authorial move done to stick it to the Last Jedi's portrayal nor a outright cynical studio move done to appease entitled fans. Much like Rian Johnson with TLJ, I think this was Favreau and company's genuine story choice, just that for the purposes of this narrative the latter differed in depiction from the former.

I very much agree with this. I think the only filmmaker that actually did any kind of “stick it to” was Abrams in TROS, because of the choices like “NO NO NO, SHE IS ACTUALLY RELATED TO SOMEONE!!!” after RJ freed Rey from looking for those questions so she could forge her own destiny.

Filoni is known for at least making sure that canon matters, and isn’t the type that would want to ignore part of canon like Abrams but in fact embrace it. While a small subset of fans would hope Disney would erase the sequels, Filoni would counter that with “NO IT ALL MATTERS” and make a strong case.

[MerelyAFan]

Moreover, the truly interesting challenge would be to make the events of the Mandalorian fit within the context of the sequel trilogy in long term ways. There could be a wealth of potential story opportunities in bridging the gap between the more traditional Luke seen in the recent season finale and the developments of him circa 7-9 on top of the narrative conclusions for the main cast proper.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

There's nothing about the appearance that inherently feels like the Luke character. But if slicing up droids and saying "may the force be with you" is all that it takes, fair enough, I'm happy you got something that I didn't.

The perspective of this show has been running with the idea that after the events of Return of the Jedi it is a time of disorganization. We saw rebel pilots track a beacon of an escaped prisoner and just blow it up, going on their way. Likewise, Mando hangs out with the Tuscan Raiders, and serves as a gray area medium to show their humanic side. This is a very inversive take on the blacks and whites of Star Wars sensibilities. Then of course there's Boba Fett who is made into a hero despite his role in capturing Han Solo and even trying to neutralize him while trying to escape.

The Luke we see is much darker than what we see in Return of the Jedi, and I think that that might be the point. It's not supposed to be triumphant, but it shows how above all of it he is. This is prime territory for them to showcase Luke's fabled turn to the dark side.

[Captain Crimson]

I so agree! TM is just more of the same, playing it safe. It's why they can't give us more SWL, because taking a chance given fandom's penchant for continuity nitpicking, lore analysis, and generally heated passion, and their own history of blunders not to mention all their new ones, well, they just think it's better to leave it carefully isolated in its frozen little bubble than exploit that market.

And I've said it before. I don't like the idea of retcons. Sadly, I think Luke's cameo (or Jake, if you think of him that way) means little since they're not going to really explore how and why he ended up that way. I think that's just for the domain of the NEU. Yet they're just too cowardly to pave it over, especially if they just plan to flip the bird to EU fans yet again. I've never seen a corporate entity with the schizophrenic fusion of the desire to build a new world that isn't at the expense of lore and burning over what came before stacked alongside the desperate desire to play it safe and take no chances and please the customers when they wind up insulting half of them.

And now I'm off to Dreamland. I'll letcha know if I see Kirby!

[Makeshift Python]

The Luke we see is much darker than what we see in Return of the Jedi, and I think that that might be the point. It's not supposed to be triumphant, but it shows how above all of it he is. This is prime territory for them to showcase Luke's fabled turn to the dark side.

Is it really? We've seen this before in TPM when Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon were cutting through the droid army like a blowtorch through butter. Even the reasoning behind why the filmmakers used droids instead of flesh and blood characters is the same, so that audiences are not too disturbed over the image of Luke slicing through people.

If they wanted to show a darker take on Luke that made him more grey, it would have been more impactful seeing him callously killing people, and then we see him take the child like a caring mentor.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

The Luke we see is much darker than what we see in Return of the Jedi, and I think that that might be the point. It's not supposed to be triumphant, but it shows how above all of it he is. This is prime territory for them to showcase Luke's fabled turn to the dark side.

Is it really? We've seen this before in TPM when Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon were cutting through the droid army like a blowtorch through butter. Even the reasoning behind why the filmmakers used droids instead of flesh and blood characters is the same, so that audiences are not too disturbed over the image of Luke slicing through people.

If they wanted to show a darker take on Luke that made him more grey, it would have been more impactful seeing him callously killing people, and then we see him take the child like a caring mentor.

We're not supposed to be impressed by mowing down droids as an action aesthetic. And it's not supposed to be a narrative showcasing Luke. Luke's doing something that to him is completely pedestrian, and it's also something that means the fate of the world for the people trapped on the other side of the door.