TNG - A Matter of Honor

[Deledrius]

The only TOS Klingon woman was a damsel (like all TOS women tended to be), then there is the one with the muscles in Star Trek 5 who proved that the original Sulu was very much not gay after he and Chekov sexually harassed her, then there is Chancellor Azetbur (I dunno how to spell it) who apparently did such a bad job that the council ended up MORE sexist after she left it, and now we have these women - who are thirsty for Riker. That's it.

Klingon women have a terrible run in Star Trek. Most of them are there to be sex objects - even the Duras sisters. What could have been a great plot about sexism (again, well done Azetbur) really was not helped by the cleavage armour. (Great idea btw, wearing armour with huge gaps over the heart among a race known for fighting with bladed weapons).

You're right, and that's one of the reasons I really liked Grilka in The House of Quark. It is an episode which was unhappy about the state of things with Klingon women in the franchise and showed not only that women do have a strong role in Klingon society, but also that both Grilka and Quark are more useful than their societies appreciate. Grilka is not a sex object; Quark's advances are rebuffed and then dropped. It's not a perfect episode on its own, sadly. We needed more like it to really flesh this aspect of their culture out and engage with how TOS and TNG presented the women.

Another that comes to mind is Martok's wife, Sirella. She's not far from a shrew stereotype, but her conflict is mostly with Dax and engaging with those social expectations, too. More often than not, DS9 looked at what the other shows did and decided to build upon it and examine it instead of taking it for granted and perpetuating poor/simplistic choices made previously.

Its stuff like this that I think makes Star Trek a bit hard to defend nowadays as this ''great liberal utopia''. By modern standards its right wing as hell in many places tbh.

That's a good sign though, like an artist looking back on their art and seeing it's better now than it was in the past. If we looked back at TNG and said, "wow, I wish things were this good" all around, we'd be in trouble. It means we've progressed. Nothing's perfect, even our visions of Utopia. The fact that TNG now seems conservative is a normal process of the passage of time in an even slightly-progressive society.

[Archanubis]

and now we have these women - who are thirsty for Riker. That's it.

I'm pretty sure they were just fuckin with him. And these ones didn't have the boob armor, I thought that was specifically a Duras sisters thing.

Yeah, I always thought that was a Lursa and B'tor thing, I don't recall any other female Klingon in the series having such an obvious target space right in the middle of their chest.

[Thebestoftherest]

and now we have these women - who are thirsty for Riker. That's it.

I'm pretty sure they were just fuckin with him. And these ones didn't have the boob armor, I thought that was specifically a Duras sisters thing.

Yeah, I always thought that was a Lursa and B'tor thing, I don't recall any other female Klingon in the series having such an obvious target space right in the middle of their chest.

Yes but let's be honest in a universe of space ship and laser guns the only people who would used melee weapons are other klingons.

[Archanubis]

And Jem'Hadar.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Which is a shame because all the future guns suck. At least a Batleth will do more than give an old man a bad case of gas.

[clearspira]

I've been musing on why i hate the hate the boob window so much, and I think it's because A) as people have said, it really only appears on them and no one else and B) it demonstrates why the Duras Sisters were idiots and thus bad villains.

Follow me along here: if you were to write a list of things most likely to earn you the respect of a Klingon, I imagine it would include things like: Strength and courage through combat, honour, skill, feasting, drinking.

Riker, Picard, Jadzia, Sisko, Nog, Archer, even Neelix all worked this out.

But the Duras sisters? Embody none of these things. They don't even attempt to play the game. Yes, being women is a massive hindrance to their plans no question, but so is the fact that they seem unwilling to earn their respect like Klingons. They act more like Romulans or Cardassians. They can't fight, they're slimy, they don't get drunk.

Or in other words, if we replaced the Duras Sisters with Cersei Lannister and Brienne of Tarth aka one woman with political savvy and one who can match a man with a blade, that civil war would have lasted a season. Hell, Cersei and the Duras Sisters pretty much had the same plan.

[Thebestoftherest]

I think that the point, that despite Klingon claims to the contrary they are just as susceptible to political manipulation by the ambitious to gain power over the brave and honorable.

[DisgruntleFairy]

One of the things that really amazes me is how white bread and boring Starfleet is. Most of the food the Klingons eat isn't that weird compared to some human foods.

[CrypticMirror]

One of the things that really amazes me is how white bread and boring Starfleet is. Most of the food the Klingons eat isn't that weird compared to some human foods.

Nothing wrong with white bread. The humble white loaf has probably done more to decrease childhood mortality, ensure basic nutrition for adults, and combat starvation, than any other invention in history. And that is before it came presliced and fortified with vitamins. White bread is awesome.

[DisgruntleFairy]

Nothing wrong with white bread. The humble white loaf has probably done more to decrease childhood mortality, ensure basic nutrition for adults, and combat starvation, than any other invention in history. And that is before it came presliced and fortified with vitamins. White bread is awesome.

But I would argue fortified rice maybe or immunizations have been more beneficial to the overall health of humanity. But really that's irrelevant.

Because you know what I meant!