Weird that there are no ethnonationalist mutants in X Men?

[Wizard of Woah!]

I think Sunfire was kind of big on the Japanese nationalism thing?

[jadenova]

Are you talking about a mutant from another country believing that their country and all mutants in that country are superior to other mutants?

[Crowley]

I mean, outside of the most drug-fueled fever dreams of Jerry Falwell, a gay person isn't going to spontaneously combust and destroy a high school, killing everyone inside. Even the most flaming of gay people can't do that. But it's quite common with mutants who can't control their powers. Normal human hate and fear of mutants isn't irrational at all; it's quite logical, so the metaphor breaks down completely. These people are, simply by virtue of an accident of their birth, active and immediate dangers to themselves and everyone around them once their powers begin to manifest. Nationwide testing and quarantine (at least until the mutant learns to control their abilities) seems a very prudent, restrained measure.

This ties in with another problem with the "mutant racism" stuff: Why are mutants singled out, but all the hundreds of non-mutant people who gain dangerous superpowers through laboratory accidents or alien encounters or whatever are not viewed on the same level? I would quite like to see someone in the comics who's being hounded for being a mutant, and then that person tries explaining to people that no, actually their powers come from an accident at the university lab or something. And then I want to see people trying to rationalize the difference.

[cilantro]

I mean, outside of the most drug-fueled fever dreams of Jerry Falwell, a gay person isn't going to spontaneously combust and destroy a high school, killing everyone inside. Even the most flaming of gay people can't do that. But it's quite common with mutants who can't control their powers. Normal human hate and fear of mutants isn't irrational at all; it's quite logical, so the metaphor breaks down completely. These people are, simply by virtue of an accident of their birth, active and immediate dangers to themselves and everyone around them once their powers begin to manifest. Nationwide testing and quarantine (at least until the mutant learns to control their abilities) seems a very prudent, restrained measure.

This ties in with another problem with the "mutant racism" stuff: Why are mutants singled out, but all the hundreds of non-mutant people who gain dangerous superpowers through laboratory accidents or alien encounters or whatever are not viewed on the same level? I would quite like to see someone in the comics who's being hounded for being a mutant, and then that person tries explaining to people that no, actually their powers come from an accident at the university lab or something. And then I want to see people trying to rationalize the difference.

Because the Mutants are basically a representation of every single oppressed group. They can be stand-ins for Blacks during the Civil Rights Era, they can be a stand-in for homosexuals, etc.... The list can go on.

[GandALF]

I mean, outside of the most drug-fueled fever dreams of Jerry Falwell, a gay person isn't going to spontaneously combust and destroy a high school, killing everyone inside. Even the most flaming of gay people can't do that. But it's quite common with mutants who can't control their powers. Normal human hate and fear of mutants isn't irrational at all; it's quite logical, so the metaphor breaks down completely. These people are, simply by virtue of an accident of their birth, active and immediate dangers to themselves and everyone around them once their powers begin to manifest. Nationwide testing and quarantine (at least until the mutant learns to control their abilities) seems a very prudent, restrained measure.

This ties in with another problem with the "mutant racism" stuff: Why are mutants singled out, but all the hundreds of non-mutant people who gain dangerous superpowers through laboratory accidents or alien encounters or whatever are not viewed on the same level? I would quite like to see someone in the comics who's being hounded for being a mutant, and then that person tries explaining to people that no, actually their powers come from an accident at the university lab or something. And then I want to see people trying to rationalize the difference.

Because the Mutants are basically a representation of every single oppressed group. They can be stand-ins for Blacks during the Civil Rights Era, they can be a stand-in for homosexuals, etc.... The list can go on.

...but that's ScreamingDoom's point, the allegory doesn't work. Black people aren't in any way more dangerous than any other race, but mutants can shoot lasers out their eyes and all sorts of stuff so they can't be a stand-in.

[cilantro]

I mean, outside of the most drug-fueled fever dreams of Jerry Falwell, a gay person isn't going to spontaneously combust and destroy a high school, killing everyone inside. Even the most flaming of gay people can't do that. But it's quite common with mutants who can't control their powers. Normal human hate and fear of mutants isn't irrational at all; it's quite logical, so the metaphor breaks down completely. These people are, simply by virtue of an accident of their birth, active and immediate dangers to themselves and everyone around them once their powers begin to manifest. Nationwide testing and quarantine (at least until the mutant learns to control their abilities) seems a very prudent, restrained measure.

This ties in with another problem with the "mutant racism" stuff: Why are mutants singled out, but all the hundreds of non-mutant people who gain dangerous superpowers through laboratory accidents or alien encounters or whatever are not viewed on the same level? I would quite like to see someone in the comics who's being hounded for being a mutant, and then that person tries explaining to people that no, actually their powers come from an accident at the university lab or something. And then I want to see people trying to rationalize the difference.

Because the Mutants are basically a representation of every single oppressed group. They can be stand-ins for Blacks during the Civil Rights Era, they can be a stand-in for homosexuals, etc.... The list can go on.

...but that's ScreamingDoom's point, the allegory doesn't work. Black people aren't in any way more dangerous than any other race, but mutants can shoot lasers out their eyes and all sorts of stuff so they can't be a stand-in.

Allegory its an allegory. It's not a direct comparison BUT it tries to have allegories about race relations. The whole shooting lasers, and having claws are just the comics way of making things interesting and also you know its comics.

Also, I do remember the comics, and like every other X-Men media group pointing out how there are good mutants and bad mutants BUT the average person hates all mutants.

[ScreamingDoom]

Allegory its an allegory. It's not a direct comparison BUT it tries to have allegories about race relations. The whole shooting lasers, and having claws are just the comics way of making things interesting and also you know its comics.

Again, though, my point was that the allegory simply doesn't work. One can't just say 'it's an allegory! it doesn't need to make sense!' and handwave things away. For an allegory to actually be effective, the two things being compared have to be reasonably close; disaffected minorities and mutants aren't even remotely close, so the allegory fails.

Also, I do remember the comics, and like every other X-Men media group pointing out how there are good mutants and bad mutants BUT the average person hates all mutants.

Again, though, this is rational behavior on the part of normal people. Most mutants don't receive any training and typically initially exhibit their mutant powers in a completely uncontrolled manner. They are a clear and present danger to themselves and to others. The fact that they don't mean do to any harm in most cases only makes things more scary. If there was an agenda here, at least there would be a means to try and predict what might be a target. With mutants manifesting powers, it's just completely random.

This is, again, why the allegory fails so spectacularly. An untrained mutant's very presence is potentially deadly to large groups of people. No one's head is going to explode if a black guy goes to a mall, but that's the sort of stuff that happens regularly with mutants.

For an actual allegory, imagine a group of people who have a virulent disease. The disease remains dormant until puberty, but when it manifests, it can kill anyone in the local area. The disease can be detected and treatment (though not cure) is possible so that the disease is at least kept from killing anyone around the carrier. Is it not a rational reaction for most people to want the carriers kept away from the general populace at least until they undergo treatment? Is it not a reasonable government response, then, to enact a national testing program to find carriers who have not manifested the symptoms of the disease and get them treatment before they end up killing or hurting themselves or others? Is it also not reasonable to keep records of these carriers so if a rash of injury or death related to the disease happens in the general population, it can be traced to a possible carrier who hasn't been keeping up with their treatment? Is it not understandable that some section of the population would not be happy with such a "weak" government response (after all, a carrier can cease their treatment at any point) and demand more stringent methods?

This is an allegory that works, because the problems presented match quite well up to those of mutants. Simply having mutants be a stand-in for any disaffected minority grouping doesn't work because the metaphor breaks down due to the fact that no member of a minority grouping is dangerous merely for being a member of a minority grouping. Mutants are.

This ties in with another problem with the "mutant racism" stuff: Why are mutants singled out, but all the hundreds of non-mutant people who gain dangerous superpowers through laboratory accidents or alien encounters or whatever are not viewed on the same level? I would quite like to see someone in the comics who's being hounded for being a mutant, and then that person tries explaining to people that no, actually their powers come from an accident at the university lab or something. And then I want to see people trying to rationalize the difference.

That would be interesting, actually. I'd think mutants are singled out because they tend to have less control over their abilities than Super Science people. I mean, I don't think Captain America ever accidentally punched the head off someone in a bar brawl, for instance. People in the Marvel universe may just think those who acquired powers through some other means than mutation to be inherently more stable (which might be true; most mutants get their powers as teenagers, who aren't the most stable people to begin with).

That said... wasn't that the point of Civil War at least somewhat? I mean, the whole point of the super registration act was to make sure that anyone with powers, regardless of where they came from, could be monitored and kept from harming themselves or others.