Return of The Jedi

Yukaphile · Post by **Yukaphile** » Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:14 am

In Legends, he could produce Force Storms that could ravage moons, Force lightning that could power planets, and some even argue he was superior to Nihilus who could drain whole planets with the Force, or Vitiate, who stripped a planet of its atmosphere. It's kind of redundant that he even wanted the Death Star in the first place.

This is back up with the Matthew Stover Revenge of the Sith novel, where he says the Empire will last 10,000 years, and the Dark Empire trilogy where it was revealed he planned to keep transferring his essence into clone bodies to keep ruling the Empire anew from the shadows, and let his apprentices be the face of the Emperor. Similar to the God of Emperor of Mankind from Warhammer 40,000 now I think about it. Kinda. Here, look at this.

"The Jedi Rebellion was our final test—it was the last gasp of the forces of darkness! Now we have left that darkness behind us forever, and a new day has begun! It is morning in the Republic!"

The Senate roared.

Padmé stared without blinking. "Here it comes," she said numbly.

Bail shook his head. "Here comes what?"

"You'll see."

"Never again will we be divided! Never again will sector turn against sector, planet turn against planet, sibling turn sibling! We are one nation, indivisible!"

The Senate roared.

"To ensure that we will always stand together, that we will always speak with a single voice and act with a single hand, the Republic must change. We must evolve. We must grow. We have become an empire in fact; let us become an Empire in name as well! We are the first Galactic Empire!"

The Senate went wild.

"What are they doing?" Bail said. "Do they understand what they're cheering for?"

Padmé shook her head.

"We are an Empire," Palpatine went on, "that will continue to be ruled by this august body! We are an Empire that will never return to the political maneuvering and corruption that have wounded us so deeply; we are an Empire that will be directed by a single sovereign, chosen for life!"

The Senate went wilder.

"We are an Empire ruled by the majority! An Empire ruled by a new Constitution! An Empire of laws, not of politicians! An Empire devoted to the preservation of a just society. Of a safe and secure society! We are an Empire that will stand ten thousand years!"

The roar of the Senate took on a continuous boiling roll like the inside of a permanent thunderstorm.

"We will celebrate the anniversary of this day as Empire Day. For the sake of our children. For our children's children! For the next ten thousand years! Safety! Security! Justice and peace!"

The Senate went berserk.

"Say it with me! Safety, Security, Justice, and Peace! Safety, Security, Justice, and Peace!"

The Senate took up the chant, louder and louder until it seemed the whole galaxy roared along.

Bail couldn't hear Padmé over the din, but he could read her lips.

So this is how liberty dies, she was saying to herself. With cheering, and applause.

That also is consistent with Sith philosophy. Conflict brings out people's true natures. Especially true in the man who laid down the foundation for the new Sith order, Darth Bane.

AllanO · Post by **AllanO** » Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:32 pm

Wargriffin wrote: ↑Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:00 am Some people have argued that Luke's 'triumph' over the Emperor is lessen by the fact that the Rebels would have killed him anyway

Would they have? When, how etc.?

Luke has no problem making it to a ship after Lando blows up the whatever in the centre of the Death Star. Death Star #2 is apparently made of like 95% less or at least slower explodium then the original. If the Rebels had succeeded in blowing up the Death Star sans Luke, the Emperor might have easily escaped the Death Star, gone back to Corsucant or wherever licked his wounds and built Death Star #3 or whatever and continued with the tyranny etc. Some drama deflation of this kind (x is made to be a big deal but is sort of irrelevant or over determined given other things in the story) are sort of inevitable in these sorts of stories, but I don't think that is one of them.

To me the key player in any original Star Wars movie is R2-D2, he gets shot in both ROTJ and the original Star Wars...

ChiggyvonRichthofen · Post by **ChiggyvonRichthofen** » Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:31 am

I have no problem with Luke's struggle being more of a personal one rather than saving the entire Rebellion with his actions... but I think very plausible that Luke's actions did have a significant impact.

If Luke managed to escape, the Emperor and Vader likely could have as well. I don't really like retconning or headcanoning in stuff like battle meditation, but it's clear enough that the Force plays into the Emperor's mastery of the galactic situation. Along with huge losses in manpower, material, credits, time spent, and whatever else, it seems likely enough that the death the Emperor and Darth Vader could very well have been the spark that inspired the overthrow of the Empire on a host of other worlds.

Not to constantly harp on the sequel trilogy, but the failure of imagination and thoughtfulness in the followup there continues to astonish me. A quick defeat of the Empire makes some sense to me, for the reasons given above. But defeating the Empire, doing the cleanup, forming a New Republic, and becoming totally lackadaisical and careless all within a span of 30 years?

MyUserName · Post by **MyUserName** » Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:24 am

I enjoy Return of the Jedi a great deal, Its my least fave of the original trilogy, but still a great movie.

I also GREATLY enjoyed the shade thrown at Kevin J Anderson in Chucks review. Though, looking at how Star Wars is being handled at the moment, hindsight has softened my opinion on him. Yes, his books were extremely silly and juvenile, but at least he never tried to take the Star Wars characters, themes, and settings, out of the franchise.

Yukaphile · Post by **Yukaphile** » Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:11 pm

I forget, what was his total number of books?

And I disagree. Return of the Jedi is very high up there for me. More so than the original. But then, that might just be because of the Battle of Endor, and the green lightsaber.

phantom000 · Post by **phantom000** » Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:42 pm

I have this complicated relationship with Star Wars, I like the setting more than I like the story, which is why i was a fan of the Expanded Universe.

Jedi seems to magnify the story's flaws while adding a lot of depth and richness to the universe itself. It is hard for me to just sit down and watch it beginning to end because I keep wanting to skip over the stuff with Luke because its not that interesting and the parts with him and Vader seems kinda pointless, which is annoying since we spent the last two films talking about 'he is our only hope.'

When I saw the cut footage of the Death Star commander I was like 'this is what i want to see, why did they cut this?'

MyUserName · Post by **MyUserName** » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:47 pm

Yukaphile wrote: ↑Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:11 pm I forget, what was his total number of books?

And I disagree. Return of the Jedi is very high up there for me. More so than the original. But then, that might just be because of the Battle of Endor, and the green lightsaber.

Jedi Academy trilogy plus darksaber plus the fourteen book long young Jedi Knights series and then there was the odd short story here and there. Not to mention he wrote the last four entries in Tales of the Jedi and a Jedi Academy graphic novel.

I actually feel a bit sad that he isn't more respected. He clearly loved the franchise so that puts him far and above the people currently working on it. But the sad fact is that he was a substandard and creatively lazy writer even by children's novel standards. He brought in SOME great ideas, like the Jedi Academy, but others were responsible for developing his ideas and characters fully.

Then there were his bad ideas. Fo eff sakes Anderson how many damn superweapons did you hash out? How many times did you go back to the Death Star and even try to one up it? And let it be known he was the first to try and ship Mara X Lando.

Yukaphile · Post by **Yukaphile** » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:16 pm

I like the Jedi Academy trilogy, and Tales of the Jedi. But then, haven't read them in years.

I remember Mara/Lando. Not a huge shipper of that. I preferred Mara/Luke, and thank God that became the canon.

Trinary · Post by **Trinary** » Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:52 pm

MyUserName wrote: ↑Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:47 pm Then there were his bad ideas. Fo eff sakes Anderson how many damn superweapons did you hash out? How many times did you go back to the Death Star and even try to one up it? And let it be known he was the first to try and ship Mara X Lando.

Yukaphile · Post by **Yukaphile** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:19 am

Maybe they just went massively overbudget in the way that the government once wasted $5,000 on a toilet seat?

*Sfdebris.net

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