VOY: Lineage

[sayla0079]

Also to note with Ezri she can relate to B'lanna somewhat being from a similar family ( the father bails on the family leaving her behind).

[McAvoy]

All I could think of when Chuck noted that there are no counsellors on Voyager is: Starfleet's track record up until this point is Troi and Ezri. Torres would probably end up having her daughter aborted after seeking help from them.

At least Troi would actually show Torres the kind of understanding she wasn't getting as a child. This episode really soured me on Mr. Torres. Because as someone whose had to deal with Tourette Syndrome and OSD since my pre-teens and all the bullying that came with it I personally HATE whenever anyone says "You need to learn to be less SENSITIVE." Especially to children! And I'm so glad Chuck pointed out that young Torres wasn't even acting out that badly at the time.

Yes one does need to know how to properly modulate your thoughts and sensations to work with those around you, but attempting to deny the doubting thoughts about yourself isn't going to make them go away. It's only go to leave you feeling like even more of a defective for to not being able to stop getting upset. What makes it especially bad in this case as that Klingons are routinely associated with a like of emotional control and brought in a culture that encourage them to channel aggression into honorable combat. To live with that stigma of being always associated with aggression and being expected to somehow not to be bother when provoked about it, potentially left her feeling like she was always a failure to both parts her identity.

It really says something that for all the flake Vulcans get for being unfeeling and condescending, at least Sarek confirmed for young Spock(in TAS: Yesteryear anyway) that separating yourself from emotions is highly challenging.

SAREK: Spock. Spock, being Vulcan means following disciplines and philosophies that are difficult and demanding of both mind and body.
Y SPOCK: Yes, father.
SAREK: You constantly display your emotions. You have even been seen fighting in the street.
Y SPOCK: Yes, father.
SAREK: The time draws near when you will have to decide whether you will follow Vulcan or human philosophy. Vulcan offers much. No war, no crime. Order, logic and control in place of raw emotions and instinct. Once on the path you choose, you cannot turn back.
Y SPOCK: Yes, father.

That is true Troi being half human and half alien can relate to some of what B'lanna went through.

Barely. Spock would understand Torres better than Troi. There was conflict with Spock and Torres due to their half human half alien genes.

Troi never seems to have an issue with her Betazoid or Human half. Well maybe her mother.

[sayla0079]

All I could think of when Chuck noted that there are no counsellors on Voyager is: Starfleet's track record up until this point is Troi and Ezri. Torres would probably end up having her daughter aborted after seeking help from them.

At least Troi would actually show Torres the kind of understanding she wasn't getting as a child. This episode really soured me on Mr. Torres. Because as someone whose had to deal with Tourette Syndrome and OSD since my pre-teens and all the bullying that came with it I personally HATE whenever anyone says "You need to learn to be less SENSITIVE." Especially to children! And I'm so glad Chuck pointed out that young Torres wasn't even acting out that badly at the time.

Yes one does need to know how to properly modulate your thoughts and sensations to work with those around you, but attempting to deny the doubting thoughts about yourself isn't going to make them go away. It's only go to leave you feeling like even more of a defective for to not being able to stop getting upset. What makes it especially bad in this case as that Klingons are routinely associated with a like of emotional control and brought in a culture that encourage them to channel aggression into honorable combat. To live with that stigma of being always associated with aggression and being expected to somehow not to be bother when provoked about it, potentially left her feeling like she was always a failure to both parts her identity.

It really says something that for all the flake Vulcans get for being unfeeling and condescending, at least Sarek confirmed for young Spock(in TAS: Yesteryear anyway) that separating yourself from emotions is highly challenging.

SAREK: Spock. Spock, being Vulcan means following disciplines and philosophies that are difficult and demanding of both mind and body.
Y SPOCK: Yes, father.
SAREK: You constantly display your emotions. You have even been seen fighting in the street.
Y SPOCK: Yes, father.
SAREK: The time draws near when you will have to decide whether you will follow Vulcan or human philosophy. Vulcan offers much. No war, no crime. Order, logic and control in place of raw emotions and instinct. Once on the path you choose, you cannot turn back.
Y SPOCK: Yes, father.

That is true Troi being half human and half alien can relate to some of what B'lanna went through.

Barely. Spock would understand Torres better than Troi. There was conflict with Spock and Torres due to their half human half alien genes.

Troi never seems to have an issue with her Betazoid or Human half. Well maybe her mother.

She was dead by then but one person that would really be able to help B'lanna would be Keylar

[CmdrKing]

Keylar is interesting in this context because she was the opposite of Torres in a lot of ways. She definitely had an affinity for Klingon culture overall, just no tolerance for whatever the Klingon equivalent of machismo is. Torres meanwhile has always seemed actively repulsed by Klingon culture generally, not just the parts that relate to her own experiences growing up.

But then maybe that means Keylar would be best positioned to help Torres find elements of it she does enjoy, and from there help her learn a more complete understanding of herself.

[Thebestoftherest]

All I could think of when Chuck noted that there are no counsellors on Voyager is: Starfleet's track record up until this point is Troi and Ezri. Torres would probably end up having her daughter aborted after seeking help from them.

Anyway, this is why designer babies is a dumb idea that should always be illegal.
''I don't like the ridges on my baby's forehead'' can easily transpose to -
''I don't like my baby being black''
''I don't like my baby being this sex''
''I don't like my baby being an inch too short''
''I don't like my baby having brown eyes when his sister has blue.''

That's how this works. Human beings as fashion. Human beings as objects. Or at worst, ethnic cleansing or gendercide. Human beings are not smart enough or mature enough to handle this power.

Only one of those is a problem. I see no problem allowing us to edit a bunch of cells, which are not yet anything at all, to be a better eventual fit with the parents. Editing ethnicity is more problematic, simply because ethnic identities are a more complex historical paradigm.

Not only that, but to edit one ethnicity suggest there something wrong with it.

[clearspira]

All I could think of when Chuck noted that there are no counsellors on Voyager is: Starfleet's track record up until this point is Troi and Ezri. Torres would probably end up having her daughter aborted after seeking help from them.

At least Troi would actually show Torres the kind of understanding she wasn't getting as a child. This episode really soured me on Mr. Torres. Because as someone whose had to deal with Tourette Syndrome and OSD since my pre-teens and all the bullying that came with it I personally HATE whenever anyone says "You need to learn to be less SENSITIVE." Especially to children! And I'm so glad Chuck pointed out that young Torres wasn't even acting out that badly at the time.

Yes one does need to know how to properly modulate your thoughts and sensations to work with those around you, but attempting to deny the doubting thoughts about yourself isn't going to make them go away. It's only go to leave you feeling like even more of a defective for to not being able to stop getting upset. What makes it especially bad in this case as that Klingons are routinely associated with a like of emotional control and brought in a culture that encourage them to channel aggression into honorable combat. To live with that stigma of being always associated with aggression and being expected to somehow not to be bother when provoked about it, potentially left her feeling like she was always a failure to both parts her identity.

It really says something that for all the flake Vulcans get for being unfeeling and condescending, at least Sarek confirmed for young Spock(in TAS: Yesteryear anyway) that separating yourself from emotions is highly challenging.

SAREK: Spock. Spock, being Vulcan means following disciplines and philosophies that are difficult and demanding of both mind and body.
Y SPOCK: Yes, father.
SAREK: You constantly display your emotions. You have even been seen fighting in the street.
Y SPOCK: Yes, father.
SAREK: The time draws near when you will have to decide whether you will follow Vulcan or human philosophy. Vulcan offers much. No war, no crime. Order, logic and control in place of raw emotions and instinct. Once on the path you choose, you cannot turn back.
Y SPOCK: Yes, father.

Oh, agreed. That never works. Its like telling someone to ''be less depressed'' or ''put the bottle down.'' If it was that easy you think I wouldn't already have done it?

[Thebestoftherest]

I think after this episode, they probably should have done stuff so that Torress can't mess with the doctor like this or his interest. She brain wash him for self serving reasons, and also ruin his family life because she thought it was 'realistic' heck if that what she thinks a realistic family is, maybe she shouldn't be allow to keep the child.

[CrypticMirror]

You know who else died as a result of a gender reveal? Anne Boleyn.

[clearspira]

I think after this episode, they probably should have done stuff so that Torress can't mess with the doctor like this or his interest. She brain wash him for self serving reasons, and also ruin his family life because she thought it was 'realistic' heck if that what she thinks a realistic family is, maybe she shouldn't be allow to keep the child.

I dunno, kind of makes sense in retrospect now that we know her relationship with her own parents.

[clearspira]

You know who else died as a result of a gender reveal? Anne Boleyn.

Kind of depends which historian you believe: She was executed for not siring a male air, she was executed because Thomas Cromwell invented charges against her, or she actually was guilty of adultery, incest and/or treason.

Personally, I think all three may have truth in reality. By all accounts by Tudor standards she was a very opinionated and strong woman who certainly would have made her powerful enemies in the court, and given how sex with King Syphilis was the only thing securing her position, I wonder if she thought that trying to have sex with another man in order to try and produce a male heir for Henry may have seemed like a smart move. I somehow doubt that she was guilty of fornicating with her own brother though.