Should Kathleen Kennedy be let go from the Star Wars megaproject?

[Riedquat]

The real reason, of course, is lazy scripting supplemented by cheap and overexpansive CGI. Now you can really sell superhuman effects in the way Lucas probably wanted to back in the 1970s, confirmed by the prequels, so... there you go. As a result of this lazy environment, I don't think a lot of writers these days really think through these shortcomings.

People aren't wowed by special effects these days. Anything is assumed to be possible so it loses its sense of impressiveness, and therefore it's rather harder to sell a film based on its effects. Do them badly and people will notice, do them well and you've just broken even. Therefore the temptation to go overboard with them in the most implausible sense should be lessened. I liked the battle scenes in Rogue One for that reason, they felt like what would've been done in the 70s had it been possible but without showing off "look at what we can do!", and therefore looks far more convincing as a result.

Mind you I've been saying things along those lines for years now and they still crank out the over-the-top CGI for the sake of it.

[RobbyB1982]

No, I don't think you realise just how absurd this time scale is.
The Original Trilogy takes place over four YEARS; with ANH being year 0 ABY, ESB being year 3, and ROJ being year 4.

And during those three years he learned NOTHING. Had no training. His skills didn't grow at all. He could barely pull a lightsaber to himself. He didn't progress at all in those three years. He had a week or two of actual tutoring, and... learned the rest on his own without Yoda

Rey survived in a harsh desert on her own her entire life, that probably beat some skill into her.

the Prequel Trilogy AKA the rise of the Chosen One who had a midichlorian count higher than Yoda when he was a small child spans 13 years. That's 10 between PM and AOTC, and 3 between AOTC and ROTS. And that WAS under the full time tutelage of a seasoned Jedi Master. And yet he seems no more powerful than Rey is despite this.

Based on what? The films that skimped over everything where he had one real lightsaber vs. lightsaber fight... against his friend Obi Wan? Or the tv series where has actually kicked quite a lot of butt and was shown to be one of the top generals in the war who won almost every major campaign he was involved in?

Again, Rey fought a guy that had just been shot in the chest, and was dealing with his mind being messed up at that point from killing his father. Kylo Ren was easy pickings at that point, even Finn with zero Force aptitude was able to put up a decent fight against him, and Rey got manhandled the most of that fight and was on the defensive. Then she got angry (dark side?), got in a lucky second wound on Kylo after bashing at him in a raged state, and after that second wound had the advantage from there, at which point the scenery around them collapsed.

It was NOT that big and impressive a deal. She wasn't fighting a full health top of his game Vader, she was fighting an already wounded insecure boy who doubted what he was doing. She did not win that with any sort of skill or power, she won it with a couple seconds of rage against a guy with a gaping weak spot on his side.

[clearspira]

No, I don't think you realise just how absurd this time scale is.
The Original Trilogy takes place over four YEARS; with ANH being year 0 ABY, ESB being year 3, and ROJ being year 4.

And during those three years he learned NOTHING. Had no training. His skills didn't grow at all. He could barely pull a lightsaber to himself. He didn't progress at all in those three years. He had a week or two of actual tutoring, and... learned the rest on his own without Yoda

Rey survived in a harsh desert on her own her entire life, that probably beat some skill into her.

the Prequel Trilogy AKA the rise of the Chosen One who had a midichlorian count higher than Yoda when he was a small child spans 13 years. That's 10 between PM and AOTC, and 3 between AOTC and ROTS. And that WAS under the full time tutelage of a seasoned Jedi Master. And yet he seems no more powerful than Rey is despite this.

Based on what? The films that skimped over everything where he had one real lightsaber vs. lightsaber fight... against his friend Obi Wan? Or the tv series where has actually kicked quite a lot of butt and was shown to be one of the top generals in the war who won almost every major campaign he was involved in?

Again, Rey fought a guy that had just been shot in the chest, and was dealing with his mind being messed up at that point from killing his father. Kylo Ren was easy pickings at that point, even Finn with zero Force aptitude was able to put up a decent fight against him, and Rey got manhandled the most of that fight and was on the defensive. Then she got angry (dark side?), got in a lucky second wound on Kylo after bashing at him in a raged state, and after that second wound had the advantage from there, at which point the scenery around them collapsed.

It was NOT that big and impressive a deal. She wasn't fighting a full health top of his game Vader, she was fighting an already wounded insecure boy who doubted what he was doing. She did not win that with any sort of skill or power, she won it with a couple seconds of rage against a guy with a gaping weak spot on his side.

You are missing the point completely. Luke learned nothing over three years this is true... DESPITE knowing about the Force. It then took him a year to reach where he was in ROJ with MORE training than Rey had because Luke taught her less than Yoda taught Luke. Rey only learned about the Force a week ago and is now lifting hundreds of rocks with her mind. Do you not understand why this is stupid? And what's this harsh desert crap? Luke was also from a harsh desert. Yeah, he had parents, but did he particularly look as if he was living a comfortable life on his moisture farm? And frankly, she isn't malnourished, she's wearing clean clothes, she apparently has more education than none. I do not see that being an orphan has actually hindered her all that much.

What do you mean ''based on what?''
Are you doubting the idea that Anakin was under the tutelage of a Jedi Master for 13 years? WE SEE THAT ON SCREEN. Why do you think Anakin hangs around Obi Wan all day? Why do you think that Obi Wan hung Qui Gon all day?
Are you doubting that he had a midichlorian count higher than Yoda? Even though Qui Gon stated it on-screen?
And seeing as the TV series is canon, yeah, that does count. Why do you think it doesn't?
And yeah, it DOES matter that it was against his ''friend'' Obi Wan because Obi Wan was a seasoned master. This should be and was an insanely difficult fight. And you also seem to be fixated on the fight between her and Kylo whilst conveniently forgetting the second fight between her and Kylo where she is now strong enough in the Force to stop him from taking the lightsaber from her.
With her week's worth of training. Against someone trained directly by Luke from a young age. Yeah, sure. Whatever.

[Yukaphile]

Rey getting so competent is a special effect and plot failure, not one that is indicative of any kind of political mindset, anti-feminist narratives to the contrary. It's how in the original trilogy, they basically just tapped swords, while in the prequels they were flipping, running, kicking, doing complex acrobatics that made them seem more superhuman, supposedly before the original movies. That's inconsistent as hell.

[Karha of Honor]

So because he went hermit because he failed the library needs to burn?

No other Sith ever tried to throw away the Light and dark minus Kreia but that was acually compelling. Also Rey seemed intrigued by the concept.

Again, the library didn't burn. The tree did. The actual *contents* of the library are still intact because Rey swiped them and stored them on the Falcon. The burning of the tree is a purely symbolic gesture for Luke's benefit.

Kylo isn't throwing away the concepts of Light and Dark. Light and Dark are bigger and more ubiquitous than the organizations and power structures that represent them. But you are correct that Kylo Ren is no Kreia. Kreia grew to hate the Force itself because her deterministic worldview clashes with the existence of destiny. Kylo's motivations are far more childish, and that's definitely by design. He's tired of always trying and failing to live up to the past, so in an effort to move beyond it he tries to burn the past down. The problem is that you can't move beyond the past if you're obsessed with it to the point of trying to kill it. Those two things are mutually exclusive (which, ironically, is the same problem Luke has). His motivations are entirely selfish and self-contradicting (which is the point).

And of course Rey is tempted; He's offering her the thing the thing she's always wanted. It wouldn't be Star Wars if the hero wasn't tempted by the villain at some point. Rey and Kylo are two halves of a protagonist. They both want the same thing; approval and validation. Kylo because he feels crushed by the weight of his own family's legacy, and Rey because she was *abandoned* by her family. The problem is that they both keep trying to obtain it through other people; Kylo through the legacy of Vader and Rey through the legend of her idol Luke Skywalker, ie, they keep looking for EXTERNAL validation when what they need is INTERNAL validation. Kylo offers her external validation in it's most abusively naked form ("You come from nothing. You ARE nothing. But not to ME.") and she ultimately rejects it, likely as a realization of what was foreshadowed in her vision in the cave, that the only person who can actually give her what she's looking for is herself.

Luke's benefit?

Kylo is just a horrible bad guy in that case along with the First Order.
She is tempted by something taht makes no sense?

Jesus this is some horrible romance.

The real reason, of course, is lazy scripting supplemented by cheap and overexpansive CGI. Now you can really sell superhuman effects in the way Lucas probably wanted to back in the 1970s, confirmed by the prequels, so... there you go. As a result of this lazy environment, I don't think a lot of writers these days really think through these shortcomings.

If there is one story a script writer should get right....

Rey getting so competent is a special effect and plot failure, not one that is indicative of any kind of political mindset, anti-feminist narratives to the contrary. It's how in the original trilogy, they basically just tapped swords, while in the prequels they were flipping, running, kicking, doing complex acrobatics that made them seem more superhuman, supposedly before the original movies. That's inconsistent as hell.

How is that a special effect. The Prequels were also a big special effect movie and Anakin was still trained how to use a saber and the force for a long time.

that is indicative of any kind of political mindset, anti-feminist narratives to the contrary.

I mean have you looked at Disney recently?

[Admiral X]

Having listened to a certain subset of feminists complain, I very much get the impression that bunch thinks a woman coming up against any kind of adversity, or having anything bad happen to her is sexist. They seem to genuinely want a character who is never wrong and always easily wins and never has anything bad happen to them.