ENT: Two Days and Two Nights

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Darth Wedgius
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Re: ENT: Two Days and Two Nights

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BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:13 pm
clearspira wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:54 pm
BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:24 am
Fianna wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:10 am But if Data has no emotions, as he claims, then nothing Pulaski says to him can be cruel, since he has no feelings to hurt (and being friendly to him is thus an equally meaningless gesture, as he shouldn't care either way).
Right. Data doesn't seem to have been conceived as loveable as much as dryly peculiar. Spock's emotionless demeanor didn't at all mean he didn't have something going on up there, but that very much was the case with Data.

And McCoy and Spock weren't friends. McCoy overall is just no-nonsense acting around anybody, and Spock just tends to perturb him the most, to the point that he finds him totally irrational through his exclusive demeanor to logic. But like it's a matter of incompatible communication and relatability, not xenophobia or anything.
People who aren't friends don't vacation together.
Kirk and McCoy are friends. There's no real kinship between McCoy and Spock.
Spock invited Kirk and McCoy to his wedding. I think grouching at Spock is how McCoy shows his affection, really.
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Re: ENT: Two Days and Two Nights

Post by Yukaphile »

I mean, yeah, seriously. His damned wedding. His two closest friends on the whole ship. Who would see him go through the type of "insanity" Vulcans find embarrassing and demeaning. They're friends, no matter which way you wanna slice it.
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Re: ENT: Two Days and Two Nights

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The only times Spock and McCoy have any conflict is over logic vs. emotion. Like in "Operation: Annihilate!" where Spock was advocating sending him and Kirk's nephew down to be killed when Kirk began bombarding the planet from orbit to stop the spread of the parasites, and McCoy had obviously found the idea distasteful, mocking the clear logic of the situation. And in "The Man Trap," we see how McCoy can be slow to act when logic demands it, having to literally witness "Nancy Crater" transform into a salt-sucking monster before he fired at it, and even then, he begged forgiveness! "Heaven forgive me." Also from "Operation: Annihilate!" McCoy blasted Kirk for sending an infected Spock down, despite the logic of the situation, that the parasites wouldn't infect him again, and Kirk retorted back that Spock WAS the logical choice, and that they both knew it. In short, that's the crux of their barbs. Following your head vs. following your heart and when you should bow to each.
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Re: ENT: Two Days and Two Nights

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My take on Spock and McCoy is it started with the two of them coming at it very much from the clashing:

"Emotions vs. Logic"

With McCoy all about being compassionate, empathic, and driven by his feelings. Spock being driven by, well, logic. The two of them gradually came to deeply respect the other's position even if they didn't always agree.

Like in Indiana Jones, there was an arc.

:)
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Re: ENT: Two Days and Two Nights

Post by Yukaphile »

That's what I just said...
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
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Re: ENT: Two Days and Two Nights

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Fianna wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:10 am But if Data has no emotions, as he claims, then nothing Pulaski says to him can be cruel, since he has no feelings to hurt (and being friendly to him is thus an equally meaningless gesture, as he shouldn't care either way).
One's victim does not need to understand they are being hurt for it to be cruel. Fish don't have pain receptors really, jellyfish as far as I know have none. Its still considered cruel to needlessly harm them. Dead bodies can't feel a thing but its considered cruel to mutilate and destroy them. Data might not have the feelings as we understand it to feel hurt when she treats him like a un-person but certainly Pulaski does and should possess some empathy should know its wrong.

And while Data might not have emotions as we understand it he still has likes and dislikes. He does not like her not using his proper name, he shows to hold some attachment to essentially meaningless objects like medals, and genuinely seems to care about his friends. He doesn't form the same bonds and emotional connections the average person does but its still there in some form. Just because its different doesn't mean its wrong or less valid.
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Re: ENT: Two Days and Two Nights

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Yukaphile wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:00 pm I mean, she had to have intentionally misspelled his name, because when he corrected her, she sneered, "What's the difference?" As Chuck pointed out, even if he's not alive, just a machine, a machine will know its name. And I believe one episode had Pulaski apologizing and admitting she's trying to overcome her prejudice. I think it was "Where Silence Has Lease."
It's a mispronunciation. Data pronounces his name in the Queen's English, Pulaski pronounced it in colloquial English* (similar to how I'd pronounce it in Culchie). It was a dick move to then not use his preferred pronunciation.

*This happens a lot, for instance I advised SFDebris once on the best way to pronounce the name Colm (definitely pronounce the "l" and put a "u" between it and the "m". Rhyming it with Gollum is actually a pretty good approximation). PS although my example's more of the opposite, come to think of it.
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Re: ENT: Two Days and Two Nights

Post by Yukaphile »

It was implied within the episode, as I see it, that Pulaski knew his name was pronounced the other way, and didn't care, because when he protested, she didn't say, "I'm sorry, I didn't know," she just smugly demanded to know the difference.
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Re: ENT: Two Days and Two Nights

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I'm not trying to say that they hate each other, and there's plenty of room to suggest that he's actually a decent individual. I've definitely seen him express respect for Spock's intelligence, but that also serves to contrast how at odds he is with Spock's demeanor.

In V when he says, "I liked him better before he died," there's plenty you can make out from that about his working relationship with Spock. I mean just the nuances of it, like partly him speaking about him in third person is characteristic, and the hint of irony in what he's saying, it speaks to a kind of detachment.
..What mirror universe? ;/
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Re: ENT: Two Days and Two Nights

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BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:00 am I'm not trying to say that they hate each other, and there's plenty of room to suggest that he's actually a decent individual. I've definitely seen him express respect for Spock's intelligence, but that also serves to contrast how at odds he is with Spock's demeanor.

In V when he says, "I liked him better before he died," there's plenty you can make out from that about his working relationship with Spock. I mean just the nuances of it, like partly him speaking about him in third person is characteristic, and the hint of irony in what he's saying, it speaks to a kind of detachment.
It also means a certain level of joking snark humor, something Bones is known for.
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