SW The Old Republic: Sith Warrior

[SabreMau]

Anyone else worry that Chuck blurs the line between himself and his character in his narrations in these reviews?

Not really. He's played multiple characters and every class on both factions on his own time, not for reviews, so he's got nothing personal against Republic. It's a character. He just hasn't done one for a review yet because he finds the Imperial storylines more interesting (which just means interesting, not morally superior) and these game reviews take a ridiculous amount of time to make with 1/3rd of this one and an entire Bounty Hunter one still left in the queue.

[hammerofglass]

Based on what Chuck said about how Jaese is influenced by player's actions and what her extreme dark side version would be like made me rather intrigued by that extreme dark side version more than what Chuck got with his way of playing Sith Warrior.

She's one of the most insane evil-as-religion Sith in the game, the only real competition being Jadus from the Agent path. To a much higher degree than they're willing to let players be, because they don't have to show it.

Just to pick one memorable conversation, she mentions offhand spending shore leave picking a trooper she fancied, forcing him to have sex with her, and she was so inebriated at the time that when she tells you she honestly can't remember if she killed him or not afterwards. Her only regret is not finding it particularly satisfying, and that's only because she likes to be dominated.

[Nobody700]

Anyone else worry that Chuck blurs the line between himself and his character in his narrations in these reviews?

Not so obvious in the Sith Inquisitor story, because in that most of the conflict was internal Sith Empire matters; but in Sith Warrior and Imperial Agent, he treats the Republic and the Jedi- or at least individual members thereof- as hypocritical or self-righteous and therefore, somehow, just as bad or worse than the Sith.

One thing for his characters to think like this, but a bit disturbing if that's his own worldview. He seems to see his characters as anti-villains who are trying to rise through the ranks and save their own neck without doing anything too evil and maybe hoping to reform it one day, but that's basically akin to trying to rise through the ranks of the Third Reich without doing anything too evil- it kind of overlooks the fact that the faction you are serving is rotten to the core and damn proud of it, and thinking that you can torture and murder in it's name for an ultimately selfish end and somehow be "less evil" than the ones trying to stop you because you find them hypocritical or annoying would only make these characters utterly delusional and full of B.S.

Fact is, your average sanctimonious or self-righteous Jedi or your typical ruthless and desperate Republican agent are nowhere near bad as the Warrior, Inquisitor or Agent are, yet the narration treats them as ten times worse, which realistically would be projection, denial or worse on the part of the POV characters, especially since we know that in-universe they definitely aren't going to make any positive difference and probably aren't even trying.

It's one thing if it's just the roles he is playing, another if he genuinely believes what he is saying- if that's the case, I'd rather he just let his characters be openly evil and revel in it, because the most annoying sort of hypocrite is the one who hates other hypocrites. Tu Quoque is a fallacy, not an excuse.

Allies bad- sometimes very bad, Nazi's still worse.

Republic and Jedi bad, Sith Empire still far, far worse.

Kind of want to see him play a Republic or Jedi character next time- if there is a next time- and see how he reacts to the Sith when they are the enemies.

I get your point, and you do have some strong evidence, but personally I see it like this. In every scenario here, Chuck’s character has NO real say at the start. His first character? A lowly spy agent who even in the end of the play through was forced to leave to actually have a normal life. The second one was definitely his most sadistic character and was a slave at the start, so while she became a dark lord in the end, I highly doubt this character will change much. Now his third character is here, and she herself is still a pawn set up by Lord Tubbo himself. None of these characters have a say and the one that does is still an asshole. What Chuck is showing is how fucked up the Sith are as a concept. In his spy one, the main villain of Part 1, Jadus, is in story the second in command of the entire empire. He’s not just a member of the council, he’s the closest thing to a boss the Sith HAVE after the Emperor, who has as much interaction in the empire as Picard’s dad did with Picard. Nothing at best, pure abuse at usual, and even worse at bad times. Yet even Jadus had little say in the entire empire. The Sith Empire is just too big to even argue with. You either get with the picture or fight it... and those who fight it get killed.

What Chuck is critiquing is the Jedi and the Republic, people who DO have say in these matters and yet choose to do so. The Republic and Jedi, for all their sins (and their is a lot even not counting the game), they are morally better and superior to the Sith and the empire. Yet this makes their actions even worse then the Sith when they do the same! When Chuck’s character commits a horrible action, it’s because his character is forced to do so and they never like it. Chuck’s character, even his most sadistic, have all had the policy of not killing unless they have too. For much of the republic and even a few Jedi though, killing him is the first and ONLY idea. In his latest video he showed it perfectly. Despite the horrible things his character has done of their own will, when it came to her and the Jedi, it’s clear that his character is the one just wanting to talk, and it’s the Jedi, the embodiment of what should be calm and rational who is acting like a typical Sith puppet.

Now I don’t argue with you that Chuck thinking EVERY action he does is morally forced on him when it’s clear his characters, even the nicest, still are sadistic creeps who will kill and maim whenever they want. But they are clearly more moral then the people they face. That’s because they ACTUALLY ado try to make things better for people. His characters aren’t out to make life worse for people, and don’t pretend that their actions are 100% good and innocent. It clear even Chuck has shown to have some disgust with his characters when he suggest a moral choice and then have the characters say fuck it and torture and kill. What Chuck is trying to do, and I feel is more successful, is point out how his character is very different from his enemies. My earlier statements of the Sith empire stand, but all his opponents all had more say then his. While his third character is the most privileged at the start, with him even noting she’s exactly like the villain from the start of his second run, even she is still a pawn to Baris and his insane whims of sadism and lust for power. But the republic and the Jedi aren’t the Sith. Jedi Masters DO have a say. Republic soldiers have a code. The Noble houses are supposed to aid commoners. Yet all of them have proven to be terrible people who assume they are good because they aren’t Sith.

So yeah, I do agree with you that your points are valid. But I don’t think it’s as bad as you say. Still, would be nice to have Chuck put his opinion on his characters morality to help clarify. Would hate to have written this entire thing and turn out that no, Chuck really is a weird guy. But I doubt it.

[TheStarWarsTrek]

@Jonathan101

I totally see where you're coming from. I've seen way too many unironic "The Empire did nothing wrong" defenses on the internet. And at the end of the day while the Republic may have corruption and Ripley may have good intentions, the Sith Empire is a conquering dictatorship. I mean, two of the tenets of the Sith religion are "peace is a lie" and "the weak deserve their fate" for crying out loud!

But I'm fairly certain Chuck is just playing a character. And it's more interesting. We have seen the story of "the noble hero fights an evil empire" hundreds of time, we don't see the story "our hero tries to do right while still serving an evil empire" very often.

Also, look at Chuck's previous video game playthroughs. In ME2, Shiva Shepard was pretty Renegade. In DA II, Hawke was a rougish thief. And in DA I, even though Tim was the Hero of Ferelden, Tim could be cowardly, was prepared to personally execute Jawin with bees, ect.

[Nobody700]

@Jonathan101

I totally see where you're coming from. I've seen way too many unironic "The Empire did nothing wrong" defenses on the internet. And at the end of the day while the Republic may have corruption and Ripley may have good intentions, the Sith Empire is a conquering dictatorship. I mean, two of the tenets of the Sith religion are "peace is a lie" and "the weak deserve their fate" for crying out loud!

But I'm fairly certain Chuck is just playing a character. And it's more interesting. We have seen the story of "the noble hero fights an evil empire" hundreds of time, we don't see the story "our hero tries to do right while still serving an evil empire" very often.

Also, look at Chuck's previous video game playthroughs. In ME2, Shiva Shepard was pretty Renegade. In DA II, Hawke was a rougish thief. And in DA I, even though Tim was the Hero of Ferelden, Tim could be cowardly, was prepared to personally execute Jawin with bees, ect.

Too be fair, I think even people role playing as the ultimate Paragon wanted to kill Jawin. At least the nicest would do so in a painless way.

[Madner Kami]

Why does Charles have to explain himself? Does anyone here really think, that Charles is going to fall to the Dark Side and become an opressive Sithlord? WTF

[Nobody700]

Why does Charles have to explain himself? Does anyone here really think, that Charles is going to fall to the Dark Side and become an opressive Sithlord? WTF

Well I mean, he already has the laugh down. That’s like, Half an evil Sith lord.

[SabreMau]

One of the reasons I made this game request in the first place was because I like exploring the idea of someone who's on the Sith side, but also on the Light side, but also powerful enough to not get immediately crushed by the weight of the Empire but in a position to potentially make far-reaching choices for Good. That's not really seen in Star Wars, even in Legends EU, and the only examples I know of are the player character (if LS is chosen), Jaesa (again, if LS is chosen), and those unnamed offscreen Light Sith that Jaesa talks about detecting out in the wild.

[SuccubusYuri]

Based on what Chuck said about how Jaese is influenced by player's actions and what her extreme dark side version would be like made me rather intrigued by that extreme dark side version more than what Chuck got with his way of playing Sith Warrior.

There's some interesting spin. IMO, Dark Jaesa comes off more as the anti-Ashara. She absolutely goes fulls devotee of the Dark Side, but she does it in a very Jedi way. Also she gets the cute line "How I would love to see Alderaan burn" xD

One of the interesting side notes, other than her default expressions, which are somewhat-overlapped (her first scene on your ship, for example, she's played to be either Light or Dark, before her wardrobe change) only Light Jaesa regularly uses the title "my Lord", to keep the charade of being Sith. Dark Jaesa almost always simply calls you "master". Sith DO use the title, it's not *weird* exactly, but I think it's just to emphasize her very Jedi way of looking at the world.

Plus a whole bunch of other attitudes but thats getting very spoilery xD

[Mecha82]

Based on what Chuck said about how Jaese is influenced by player's actions and what her extreme dark side version would be like made me rather intrigued by that extreme dark side version more than what Chuck got with his way of playing Sith Warrior.

There's some interesting spin. IMO, Dark Jaesa comes off more as the anti-Ashara. She absolutely goes fulls devotee of the Dark Side, but she does it in a very Jedi way. Also she gets the cute line "How I would love to see Alderaan burn" xD

One of the interesting side notes, other than her default expressions, which are somewhat-overlapped (her first scene on your ship, for example, she's played to be either Light or Dark, before her wardrobe change) only Light Jaesa regularly uses the title "my Lord", to keep the charade of being Sith. Dark Jaesa almost always simply calls you "master". Sith DO use the title, it's not *weird* exactly, but I think it's just to emphasize her very Jedi way of looking at the world.

Plus a whole bunch of other attitudes but thats getting very spoilery xD

Well those things do make her seem like even more interesting character than I thought on both light side and dark side. She must really hate Alderaan to want to see it burn. Granted she was born to family of servants so that might have something to do with it.