Picard - Remembrance

[Riedquat]

And you're not a toxic fan, if you have constructive criticism - you are a toxic fan, however, if you say "meh, that's just SJW-Bullshit" or if you know, that you want to hate the show and don't want to give it a fair chance. If you know from second one, that you're gonna hate the show and now just saying "I hate the show because of these and those reasons" - then you're a toxic fan.

I don't accept that in the slightest (and bear in mind that overall I liked Picard, albeit with some reservations). It all sounds part of the general trend of "if you don't like our vision then there's something wrong with you!", and that happens far too often these days. I've now become very suspicious of anyone who uses the word "toxic" when they're not talking about chemicals.

[CaptainCalvinCat]

And you're not a toxic fan, if you have constructive criticism - you are a toxic fan, however, if you say "meh, that's just SJW-Bullshit" or if you know, that you want to hate the show and don't want to give it a fair chance. If you know from second one, that you're gonna hate the show and now just saying "I hate the show because of these and those reasons" - then you're a toxic fan.

I don't accept that in the slightest (and bear in mind that overall I liked Picard, albeit with some reservations). It all sounds part of the general trend of "if you don't like our vision then there's something wrong with you!", and that happens far too often these days. I've now become very suspicious of anyone who uses the word "toxic" when they're not talking about chemicals.

Well, we could use a different word. Asshole, wanker, idiot, Volldepp, Schwachbegabter or something like that - and please, note, to me this "toxic" is not focussed on "You didn't like our vision" - it's more connected to "You knew, that you didn't like the show in the first place - because you said it, yourself. You said 'Meh, I don't know, that's too SJW for me' - and then you sat down and watched the show with all the negative emotions towards that show, that you knew, you would have, because you said very early on, that you didn't like the show."

It's clear in Star Trek Picard and clear in Discovery - and even in Voyager.
We all remember, that big discussions, about how bad the Discoverys design would be, how too SJW cast and crew would be - same with Picard - and we know, how the idiots, wanker, Arschgeigen, were bitching and moaning, just because the Captain of Voyager was a woman .

And then people sat down, watched the show, fully conscious of the fact, that they'd hate it - and so they saw all the negative things about these shows, that were to notice - and they were so overly present for them, because they didn't want to like the show in the first place.

THAT's what a toxic fan is - at least to me.
The toxic fan is an asshat, who knows, that s/he doesn't like a certain source of entertainment and because s/he wants to makie his/her hatred known. And since people might ask "Why are you saying, that this show is shit?" and they don't want to jump up and down like a child just yelling "The show is just bad, deal with it, mimimi", they sit down, so they have a basic understanding of said show and then they can say "I wanted to give it a fair chance" (which they didn't do), "But now, since I have watched the show, I can say, what I already knew since the first time, the public spoke about it."

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I try not to generalize nor do I have any feelings about Reidquat as a fan so to speak, but yeah that seems like what people kinda do.

Really though there aren't many storms brewing right now.

[CaptainCalvinCat]

I try not to generalize nor do I have any feelings about Reidquat as a fan so to speak, but yeah that seems like what people kinda do.

Really though there aren't many storms brewing right now.

Note, however, that I was not talking about Reidquat, I only said, what a "toxic fan" would be to me. And even the original posting, that Reidquat took issue with was not directed at said user, but the user "Artabax", who plaid the "I am a toxic fan"-game.

[Artabax]

THAT's what a toxic fan is - at least to me.

It may be the meaning to YOU, but Chabon does not consider such nuance the interview defines precisely 2 kinds of fans: obedient versus toxic.

You only hate Janeway because she is a woman, you only hate Sisko because he is black. say the SJW. Fake news, I hate Janeway for the innumerable evil acts that Chuck has tried to list. I love Sisko. The only time I hated him was the Javert arc when he genocided the Maquis planets. I hate that the writers turned my Hero into an evil SJW during. those episodes.

For all the SJW tropes of DIS and PIC, those shows were interesting enough that I watched them. ENT is the SJWestest Trek show of all time. It was so boring that the umpteenth episode where the sudden surprise reveal was Vulcans are traitors was when I stopped watching.

Here is me being toxicker than you can possibly imagine. I did not watch a show just to hate it. I hated it so much, I stopped watching. TOXIC

[CaptainCalvinCat]

THAT's what a toxic fan is - at least to me.

It may be the meaning to YOU, but Chabon does not consider such nuance the interview defines precisely 2 kinds of fans: obedient versus toxic.

You only hate Janeway because she is a woman, you only hate Sisko because he is black. say the SJW. Fake news, I hate Janeway for the innumerable evil acts that Chuck has tried to list. I love Sisko. The only time I hated him was the Javert arc when he genocided the Maquis planets. I hate that the writers turned my Hero into an evil SJW during. those episodes.

For all the SJW tropes of DIS and PIC, those shows were interesting enough that I watched them. ENT is the SJWestest Trek show of all time. It was so boring that the umpteenth episode where the sudden surprise reveal was Vulcans are traitors was when I stopped watching.

Here is me being toxicker than you can possibly imagine. I did not watch a show just to hate it. I hated it so much, I stopped watching. TOXIC

Well, if you want to play this game that way, then - yeah, by acting like a toxic fanboy, you cannot complain, if Chabon would've said "This show is not for you". *shrugs*

Plus: "the innumerable evil acts that Chuck has tried to list" - yeah, erm... you mean the one, he brought up for comedic purposes? You know, that this whole thing is for comedy and that it is opinionated as Chuck said in the earlier intros?

[Riedquat]

And then people sat down, watched the show, fully conscious of the fact, that they'd hate it - and so they saw all the negative things about these shows, that were to notice - and they were so overly present for them, because they didn't want to like the show in the first place.

And so what if they did? No, it's still all sounding like trying to attack people who have the gall to not like what you've produced (generic 'you', no you personally). This is especially problematic when it involves people who genuinely are fans of the wider series / franchise / whatever. Of course they're going to sit down and watch it, even if they're predisposed to have a negative opinion from whatever they might've already heard. If you're going to take credit for people you please you also need to accept the ones you pissed off too, rather than trying to find excuses to dismiss them.

[CaptainCalvinCat]

And then people sat down, watched the show, fully conscious of the fact, that they'd hate it - and so they saw all the negative things about these shows, that were to notice - and they were so overly present for them, because they didn't want to like the show in the first place.

And so what if they did? No, it's still all sounding like trying to attack people who have the gall to not like what you've produced (generic 'you', no you personally). This is especially problematic when it involves people who genuinely are fans of the wider series / franchise / whatever. Of course they're going to sit down and watch it, even if they're predisposed to have a negative opinion from whatever they might've already heard. If you're going to take credit for people you please you also need to accept the ones you pissed off too, rather than trying to find excuses to dismiss them.

If I sit down and watch a movie, that I know I would not like, then say "There, I said it to you - movie sucks", one could say "Well, you saw the trailers, you knew, who was acting in it, you knew who wrote it - and you sat down with your preconceived notion, that the movie would suck, and you say it sucks. Who is surprised? Absolutely no one - because you didn't give the movie a fair chance."

That's what's wrong with it. It's as simple as that.

For example: I don't like "The Orville" - I think, the whole gross-out-humour is not my case. I know that, because I watched some episodes of Family Guy and was ultimately annoyed by the humour, for example, the whole "Stewie is a sociopath and is trying to kill his mum"-thing, then I watched Chucks review of "The Orville" and saw that alien doing his ejaculation-joke and then I stumbled upon two episodes and - you know what? Tadaa - gross-out humour. Because I was fine-tuned to notice that.

And here, people could say "Well, what do you expect? You don't like the Authors comedic style, you don't like his humour, so... do you really think, that this would turn out differently?"
The difference is: I didn't sit down to watch two episodes to later tell everyone: "Ha! I said it, I knew it, Thank you."

[Thebestoftherest]

I think that the fact that we spend more time talking about the politics of the behind the scenes than the actual story might be a red flag

[Darth Wedgius]

IMHO, someone who says they don't like a show because it's too "SJWish" (whatever they mean by that) is not more toxic than someone who says they don't like a show because it's "not progressive enough" (whatever they mean by that). All "toxic" means as Chabon or someone similar says "toxic," I can understand that to really just mean "I don't like these people," whether Chabon realizes that or not.

I see no reason to get wrapped around the axle for someone else using their own definition of "toxic." don't really need to care what Chabon calls toxic any more than I need to care what someone else calls "good," "bad," "ugly," or "nasty." It's just an opinion.