The Star Wars Sequels Erased?

[CaptainCalvinCat]

Oh and far as voices. Patrick Stewart caught be off guard the most. He truly lost that commanding voice he once had.

I'm not too sure about anything, but he sounded kind of aged in Logan.

I follow him on Facebook. Lately he does a Daily Sonnet where he reads from a book. From Logan to Picard, he does sound like that now.

He is afterall 80 now. For all jokes about him not aging he certainly caught me off guard in Picard more than Logan. It happens people age, their voice changes, it just caught me off gaurd how frail he looks and sounds now.

The voice-actor who dubs him in Germany, really transports this, too. And yeah, it was scary, frightening at first, uncomfortable even, to hear a man, that once made an entire starships bridge a theatre - by his voice alone - to sound that frail... but that's the way it is, we have to live with it, and be glad, that he still is into that thing. He could've easily just said "Girls, guys, I have earned enough money, I'm off to fulfill my lives dreams. Ciao."

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Oh and far as voices. Patrick Stewart caught be off guard the most. He truly lost that commanding voice he once had.

I'm not too sure about anything, but he sounded kind of aged in Logan.

I follow him on Facebook. Lately he does a Daily Sonnet where he reads from a book. From Logan to Picard, he does sound like that now.

He is afterall 80 now. For all jokes about him not aging he certainly caught me off guard in Picard more than Logan. It happens people age, their voice changes, it just caught me off gaurd how frail he looks and sounds now.

Well what I missed was how he used to be the smartest guy in the room. Or like the episode where they lose their memory, he naturally exhibits the conscious of an acting captain.

But it does make sense in Picard as they bring it up as a failing point in his character. It's like a redux of All Good Things where he's playing arrogant seasons 1/2 Picard as well as someone who's lost their way.

[Makeshift Python]

I'd even argue his voice changed during the production of TNG. In the first season most of his line delivery is very stern and direct. Over the course of the show his voice became more relaxed, probably reflecting his attitude changing behind the scenes. He said during the first season he took his work much more seriously to the point he'd admonish his acting colleagues for goofing off on set. At some point he started to mellow out, as you can see in the bloopers he allowed himself to goof with the cast when someone would flub a line. By then, his voice would only become stern and direct during his famous speeches.

So of course by PIC, Stewart is not only much older in real life, but he's supposed to be playing someone who's 95 years old, so he's likely putting even more emphasis on Picard's old age. Couldn't even be more explicit than in the first episode where he has incredible difficulty trying to go up a flight of stairs. So yeah, if you really were hoping for Picard to be played as he was when Stewart was 47 years young, it's almost deflating to see him be played so frail and vulnerable. And that's why Stewart came back. He had no interest in playing a version of Picard he already played over 30 years ago. If we want that Picard back, it would probably involve recasting.

[GreyICE]

Well what I missed was how he used to be the smartest guy in the room. Or like the episode where they lose their memory, he naturally exhibits the conscious of an acting captain.

But it does make sense in Picard as they bring it up as a failing point in his character. It's like a redux of All Good Things where he's playing arrogant seasons 1/2 Picard as well as someone who's lost their way.

Is that a failing of the actor or the character? In TNG, Picard was in charge of the Federation Flagship, regularly got briefings from some of the smartest minds in Starfleet, was constantly updated on happenings in the galaxy, and could count on analysis from hypercompetent officers.

In Picard, Picard is off-balance. His crew is unreliably - consisting of a drug addict, an untrustworthy captain, a Romulan youth, and a scientist with no practical experience. Their analysis is untrustworthy. He's had decades to ruminate on his mistakes. His mind itself is failing him and he knows it. Every decision or sentence could be the result of his own brain falling apart.

Why should he sound the same? Picard always saw his role as to gather all the information possible from all the experts possible and act as best he could on what he knew. In every TNG episode, he gathered all the facts possible up until it was time to act. Then he acted decisively, but how many episodes did we see Picard wait, take no side, or simply ask for more time? And that time was usually for his own crew to find things.

With no experts and no trust in his own decision making, I wouldn't expect him to display the same confidence. His entire process doesn't work when you don't have full faith in your crew.

[clearspira]

I'd even argue his voice changed during the production of TNG. In the first season most of his line delivery is very stern and direct. Over the course of the show his voice became more relaxed, probably reflecting his attitude changing behind the scenes. He said during the first season he took his work much more seriously to the point he'd admonish his acting colleagues for goofing off on set. At some point he started to mellow out, as you can see in the bloopers he allowed himself to goof with the cast when someone would flub a line. By then, his voice would only become stern and direct during his famous speeches.

So of course by PIC, Stewart is not only much older in real life, but he's supposed to be playing someone who's 95 years old, so he's likely putting even more emphasis on Picard's old age. Couldn't even be more explicit than in the first episode where he has incredible difficulty trying to go up a flight of stairs. So yeah, if you really were hoping for Picard to be played as he was when Stewart was 47 years young, it's almost deflating to see him be played so frail and vulnerable. And that's why Stewart came back. He had no interest in playing a version of Picard he already played over 30 years ago. If we want that Picard back, it would probably involve recasting.

My problem with Picard's in-universe age is the problem i've always had with Trek: people die too young. People today can make 100 - yet with the exception of McCoy in Farpoint, no one seems to have a life expectancy in this post-scarcity society that outstrips ours.

Its like i've said on a couple of obituary pages on this forum: we have to accept that all of the Trek actors and actresses that we grew up loving are only immortal on-screen. None of them look like that now. We are now - sadly - in the endgame as far as 90% of the cast who worked on a 20th century Star Trek series is concerned. Even the ENT cast are now 20 years older than they were.

[Makeshift Python]

I'd even argue his voice changed during the production of TNG. In the first season most of his line delivery is very stern and direct. Over the course of the show his voice became more relaxed, probably reflecting his attitude changing behind the scenes. He said during the first season he took his work much more seriously to the point he'd admonish his acting colleagues for goofing off on set. At some point he started to mellow out, as you can see in the bloopers he allowed himself to goof with the cast when someone would flub a line. By then, his voice would only become stern and direct during his famous speeches.

So of course by PIC, Stewart is not only much older in real life, but he's supposed to be playing someone who's 95 years old, so he's likely putting even more emphasis on Picard's old age. Couldn't even be more explicit than in the first episode where he has incredible difficulty trying to go up a flight of stairs. So yeah, if you really were hoping for Picard to be played as he was when Stewart was 47 years young, it's almost deflating to see him be played so frail and vulnerable. And that's why Stewart came back. He had no interest in playing a version of Picard he already played over 30 years ago. If we want that Picard back, it would probably involve recasting.

My problem with Picard's in-universe age is the problem i've always had with Trek: people die too young. People today can make 100 - yet with the exception of McCoy in Farpoint, no one seems to have a life expectancy in this post-scarcity society that outstrips ours.

I would assume McCoy being 137 is more exceptional. We don't ever really learn what the life expectancy of humans in the 24th century is. You also have to account for the fact that McCoy was added in purely for fan service by the producers, he wasn't meant to be a statement for what the average life expectancy of humans is in the 24th century. Not everything in Star Trek is added purely for the purpose of world building.

I think there are really only a few examples in all of Trek that have actors playing characters that are remarkably older than they are. One that comes to mind is Rishon played by Anne Haney, who was actually 55 during the production of "The Survivors" but was playing a character that was 82 years old. Funnily, later on she would appear on DS9 playing a 100 year old Bajoran arbiter when she was 59 years old.

In the same episode that featured the Bajoran arbiter, we learn Miles and Keiko left DS9 to go visit her mother for her 100th birthday. Assuming Keiko is in her 30s like Rosalind Chao, that would mean Keiko's mom would have had to been in her 60s when she gave birth.

Its like i've said on a couple of obituary pages on this forum: we have to accept that all of the Trek actors and actresses that we grew up loving are only immortal on-screen. None of them look like that now. We are now - sadly - in the endgame as far as 90% of the cast who worked on a 20th century Star Trek series is concerned. Even the ENT cast are now 20 years older than they were.

True. In just six years, ENT will have been around the same amount of years as TOS was when TUC came out. If they had a film series a decade after cancellation like the TOS cast, we would have had the ENT equivalent of a SEARCH FOR SPOCK this year.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Well what I missed was how he used to be the smartest guy in the room. Or like the episode where they lose their memory, he naturally exhibits the conscious of an acting captain.

But it does make sense in Picard as they bring it up as a failing point in his character. It's like a redux of All Good Things where he's playing arrogant seasons 1/2 Picard as well as someone who's lost their way.

Is that a failing of the actor or the character? In TNG, Picard was in charge of the Federation Flagship, regularly got briefings from some of the smartest minds in Starfleet, was constantly updated on happenings in the galaxy, and could count on analysis from hypercompetent officers.

I wasn't trying to frame it as a failing necessary, but as far as what I was expecting I guess he could have had a little more effective foresight into matters or was a little more strong with his professional networking. I mean he could still be passively arrogant in his old age, and Starfleet head could still want him swept under the rug. If anything it's just a matter of writing and creativity more than just calling Stuart emasculated. I'm more about taking what you have and working better with it if I get critical with stories, instead of just expecting them to cut everything I didn't like about it out lol.

In Picard, Picard is off-balance. His crew is unreliably - consisting of a drug addict, an untrustworthy captain, a Romulan youth, and a scientist with no practical experience. Their analysis is untrustworthy. He's had decades to ruminate on his mistakes. His mind itself is failing him and he knows it. Every decision or sentence could be the result of his own brain falling apart.

Well I did pick up on all this, but I don't think these elements really come together well.

As far as his brain falling apart, I get the connotation, but I don't feel that that's what they were going for. I'm not thinking as an audience we're supposed to assume that his general cognition to his agenda to save the girl might be dubious.

Why should he sound the same? Picard always saw his role as to gather all the information possible from all the experts possible and act as best he could on what he knew. In every TNG episode, he gathered all the facts possible up until it was time to act. Then he acted decisively, but how many episodes did we see Picard wait, take no side, or simply ask for more time? And that time was usually for his own crew to find things.

And again, I don't feel that they carried that through here. He's not pooling the best here for matters pertaining to the main mission. It's more like Mission Impossible 4 where they are predominantly disenfranchised to the point where all the expected components of the mission in terms of materials and operatives are compromised to some capacity. And if all of these elements were a little more cohesive, I think the show would have been a bit more well received.

With no experts and no trust in his own decision making, I wouldn't expect him to display the same confidence. His entire process doesn't work when you don't have full faith in your crew.

Actually I thought confidence is what he's riding on.

[Captain Crimson]

STP has its share of problems, but I don't subscribe to Overlord's view they wanted to deliberately shame and humiliate Picard for being white, so much as do a modern-day deconstruction of paradise lost and an empire at the end of its life that was nowhere near as great as people think it was. A very cynical leftist view of the US in the last 20 years, where we came from, where we are, and where we're going, but still not an attempt to destroy Picard. Besides, STP is a gold mine compared to what came prior with STD.