UK passing staunch gender bathroom law

[Captain Crimson]

It's not just judgment form their peers, it's getting thrown out of their home by their family, it's getting fired from their jobs, it's potentially being murdered in the streets.

Well, a business can associate with whomever they want. They are not obligated to bake gay wedding cakes, just like how I defended that Disney had every right to fire Ms. Carano. Yet all the lefties here were whooping that up and celebrating it despite talking about female empowerment, OMG...

What do you mean by mainstream? Most people aren't trans, but most people aren't Jewish and there is very, very little need to justify having Jewish characters in media. Support for trans people is fairly high especially in the 18-49 demographics that companies actually care about.

I actually do support diversity hiring quotas because non-quota attempts at increasing diverity in the work place have utterly failed at reducing hiring discrimination.

Including the kinds of people, be they non-white, gay, and/or trans, that exist in the real world is not political correctness, if anything the media has a history of being too politically correct in only showing things that cater to cis straight white audiences. A good example of this would be westers where in cowboys are almost uniformly depicted as white when around half of all cowboys were black or Hispanic.

Anime fans can be quite toxic and throw around transphobic and homophobic slurs with abandon.

I'd fit into that category and they make it quite clear they don't want me as a customer. And I know many other Zoomers who feel the same way. Catering to younger people these days means shoving out the older customers, the loyal consumers who have been there for a long time. It's a problem because these out-of-depth executives just assume social media trends represent reality at any given time and it does not. Just a tiny handful of people.

Representation gets you ultimately into a kind of bottomless hole where nothing is ever enough and in the end, when do you ignore that for the actual story and character? How many mega-budgeted diversity-hired movies went bombing out of those demands?

Because shouldn't the person's merits matter more than their skin color or genitals? You're gonna run into a paradox if you want to lump in "I want the best person for the job" next to "I want somebody I can hire for an arbitrary social reason," no matter how much you think you won't, it's just matters of degree. You're forcing conformity to somebody's innate biases all humans share. Especially since whites are a majority, so by that logic, one could easily turn it around to say we should have more whites in key executive roles.

But they are a minority, remember. And always will be. Actually, should it not be realistic diversity in the workface and on screen? People want to talk about marginalized groups is one thing, but there's nothing that says a compassionate cis-het white male couldn't talk about the problems inherent in being disenfranchised. Because it's a basic human emotion. We just can't handle empathy well. You don't get to be the apex species by trying to be cute and cuddly.

Actually, the reason that they even actually predict changing demographics favoring Latinos and Latinas? Would be because the DNC does nothing to stop illegal immigration because they want those numbers. They have nothing else to offer since they threw away white voters to chase all these blue checkmarks. 2020 proved demographics are NOT destiny. Since you said anime fans are toxic, I'll counter that I've seen many Latino anime fans talk that way. Hate California and white SJWs with a passion. They hate the cultural gentrification. Gonna label them transphobic and homophobic?

Naw, I know the users here would just slander their ethnic background and insist they can't be part of the Hispanic tribe even though those same users would be using terms like LatinX. You're never gonna make everyone happy. We have to accept that.

A lot of Japanese media is quite terrible at LGBT representation as most of it exists for the titillation of the straight audiences.

And so far efforts to make anime more politically correct and woke have failed. And always will.

Anyone remember Keijo?

Firstly transtrenders do not exist. Secondly, they are adding more and more diversity because it makes money. Thirdly, the military is a major public institution and has historically been a melting pot for Americans and the integration of the military has historically furthered integration and acceptance in other parts of American life meaning that Trump was deliberately trying to force trans people out of public life. Fourthly being trans is not in and of itself political, being trans in no way prevents someone from following orders. Fifthly, the Dr. Seuss books in question stopped print because they weren't making a lot of money and because Seuss books realized that they could get a huge amount of money by getting conservative morons to buy huge amounts of the books that they are still selling, which is exactly what happened.

The next generation will prove that. I'd bet high dollars we're not gonna see mass sex changes. If there actually is a rising pattern of trans within Gen Z, then it is because everyone is so miserable, we want an escape from our daily lives, but now they just pollute that with the very problems that plague RL and say you're not welcome if you hate that.

I find it quite ironic that you purport ST has gone mainstream and have criticized it in the past when you rail on actual nerd communities in anime. Do you support corporate mainstream diversity or do you support independent artistic fan projects? Look at the backlash Joker got over nothing. Heaven forbid an artist has control over their own work. Diversity nowadays comes with bad writing and acting like it's never been done before. Gimme the whitewashed timeless tales of the past, if you please, if it means we have actual good content.

The military has always experimented on its soldiers and done questionable, horrible things. Facts. I also haven't defended Mr. Trump on this.

Well, you're doing trans people a horrible disservice in trying to treat them as a special case. Also, congratulations, you're literally adding nothing new since I had said that you're there in the military to fight and obey, and in that respect, practically anyone but the disabled could join on the front lines.

All I see is that the corporations that pander to SJWs want to change history. Rewrite it to suit their narratives. Again, bringing up Ms. Carano, I fully expect them to edit her appearances out of TM. I'd bet money on that, as well. You're leftist and you want corporate diversity? Why? If you hate the corporations? Diversity, to me, seems to work better outside it. If you support corporate diversity, well, this is what they do. This is what it leads to. Obsession over pandering to a woke fringe that winds up purging somebody over their political affiliation, from all traces of history of product and RL.

Dark Fate was produced by James Cameron and he's long past doing things that he doesn't want to do.

Well, I could list many other examples. That isn't the only one.

Problem is diversity at this point means you have no place if you're a cis-het straight white male. And then they deflect to say the problem is YOU for being racist and sexist even if you're saying the story is awful.

Demanding PC themes means the stories are being butchered. Real-world activism is one thing. Why do you want that in art? Political art is fine. Art has no room for political correctness.

So logically allowing self-identification is the only way to go.

And that would make me literally nothing.

My story already ended long ago in the relative space that is the future. That's been done and told. And I'm just a speck of dust in an infinite universe.

I self-identify as nothing because that is my inevitable end state.

And "what if someone identified as [inanimate object]" or "I identify as [inanimate object]" is a long running trans phobic joke.

Well, it's true. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

What if a bisexual man made it? I've known such, who have dated both men and women, and hates the LGBT community. That's the problem. Even the terms you use, the proper pronunciation, doesn't matter in the context of the future. Because that's already going to be far different as time moves on and especially from person to person. We're having a cultural divide over proper terminology, for H's sake! No wonder the world can't take us seriously anymore.

My dude it's not about a few people saying mean things it's about politcal movements to ban us from public life and the staggering amount of hate crimes committed against us.

And there's always a counter-movement and pushback, so don't you worry about that. It won't happen. At least not in the next five years.

No hate crime is ever justified, and yet, I think comparisons to Nazi Germany are just false and misleading while those who want to push us onto that pathway use it to divide people. We are not at that level yet. And I doubt we will be.

Have you considered that the reason executives are listening to one side and not the other is despite most media executives being very, very conservative they've found their is more money in diversity?

Yeah, but it's not like we get good writing that way. And a lot of your remarks seem at odds to actual nerd fandom. Sounds like you want diversity and mainstream even though that means the character and plot is watered down and diluted. It loses what made it special. Who cares? If getting good stories means republican oversight, fine then. I'll accept that. And it's not as if SJWs are being any better, shoehorning in hamfisted commentary that won't have any cultural staying power with the very brief window of history we are living within.

Standards of beauty have varied wildly over both time and cultures.

And yet there's always been a consistent mainstream view on that. A consistent one. And for good reasons. Despite our identity issues, there are core facets to humanity that will always remain constant and part of us.

What great work of art has been ruined in this way?

SW, ST, DW, Terminator, Predator, many. No one is happy with the entertainment media we get now, and yet they still pander to you SJWs. That's no doubt why you keep supporting it even though you complain, when by all rights you shouldn't. You're getting exactly what you've asked for.

Everywhere in culture now people are hungry, DESPERATE for alternatives. We just have a tiny handful ruling over everything. And we just don't have any.

I'm off for the night. Later.

[Draco Dracul]

It's not just judgment form their peers, it's getting thrown out of their home by their family, it's getting fired from their jobs, it's potentially being murdered in the streets.

Well, a business can associate with whomever they want. They are not obligated to bake gay wedding cakes, just like how I defended that Disney had every right to fire Ms. Carano. Yet all the lefties here were whooping that up and celebrating it despite talking about female empowerment, OMG...

A) Most of those points have nothing to do with businesses at all.
B) Sex is a protected class while being a bigot is not.

What do you mean by mainstream? Most people aren't trans, but most people aren't Jewish and there is very, very little need to justify having Jewish characters in media. Support for trans people is fairly high especially in the 18-49 demographics that companies actually care about.

I actually do support diversity hiring quotas because non-quota attempts at increasing diverity in the work place have utterly failed at reducing hiring discrimination.

Including the kinds of people, be they non-white, gay, and/or trans, that exist in the real world is not political correctness, if anything the media has a history of being too politically correct in only showing things that cater to cis straight white audiences. A good example of this would be westers where in cowboys are almost uniformly depicted as white when around half of all cowboys were black or Hispanic.

Anime fans can be quite toxic and throw around transphobic and homophobic slurs with abandon.

I'd fit into that category and they make it quite clear they don't want me as a customer. And I know many other Zoomers who feel the same way. Catering to younger people these days means shoving out the older customers, the loyal consumers who have been there for a long time. It's a problem because these out-of-depth executives just assume social media trends represent reality at any given time and it does not. Just a tiny handful of people.

That's what businesses have done for decades. Unless it's something very sepcialized advertisers only care about getting eyes from the people 18-49, and especially 18-34.

Representation gets you ultimately into a kind of bottomless hole where nothing is ever enough and in the end, when do you ignore that for the actual story and character? How many mega-budgeted diversity-hired movies went bombing out of those demands?

I legitimately can't think of one that has.

Because shouldn't the person's merits matter more than their skin color or genitals? You're gonna run into a paradox if you want to lump in "I want the best person for the job" next to "I want somebody I can hire for an arbitrary social reason," no matter how much you think you won't, it's just matters of degree. You're forcing conformity to somebody's innate biases all humans share. Especially since whites are a majority, so by that logic, one could easily turn it around to say we should have more whites in key executive roles.

Current hiring practices are so biased in favor of white people that if you have a white man and a black man with the same education, and same job experience, but the black man has a clean record and the white man has a felony conviction the white man is more likely to be hired.

On a personal level my ability to buy that excuse is nonexistent because the first time I heard it was for the white wash casting of Aang and Katara in The Last Airbender movie.

But they are a minority, remember. And always will be. Actually, should it not be realistic diversity in the workface and on screen? People want to talk about marginalized groups is one thing, but there's nothing that says a compassionate cis-het white male couldn't talk about the problems inherent in being disenfranchised. Because it's a basic human emotion. We just can't handle empathy well. You don't get to be the apex species by trying to be cute and cuddly.

On screen and in the workforce their is a massive bias towards white people, and especially white men. While allies are wonderful to have, the representation they give will always have a copy of a copy element to it, and be full of their own biases developed from not having those lived experiences.

Which is it, is being able to empathize with other basic human emotion or can we not handle empathy well?

Actually, the reason that they even actually predict changing demographics favoring Latinos and Latinas? Would be because the DNC does nothing to stop illegal immigration because they want those numbers. They have nothing else to offer since they threw away white voters to chase all these blue checkmarks. 2020 proved demographics are NOT destiny. Since you said anime fans are toxic, I'll counter that I've seen many Latino anime fans talk that way. Hate California and white SJWs with a passion. They hate the cultural gentrification. Gonna label them transphobic and homophobic?

America's immigration policies are deeply racist. It's also funny because despite Biden not actually investing much into courting Latines, Trump still only saw gains with the old.

Naw, I know the users here would just slander their ethnic background and insist they can't be part of the Hispanic tribe even though those same users would be using terms like LatinX. You're never gonna make everyone happy. We have to accept that.
[]

A lot of Japanese media is quite terrible at LGBT representation as most of it exists for the titillation of the straight audiences.

And so far efforts to make anime more politically correct and woke have failed. And always will.

Anyone remember Keijo?

I don't think you know what woke or politically correct mean because that's a bog standard fan service show.

Firstly transtrenders do not exist. Secondly, they are adding more and more diversity because it makes money. Thirdly, the military is a major public institution and has historically been a melting pot for Americans and the integration of the military has historically furthered integration and acceptance in other parts of American life meaning that Trump was deliberately trying to force trans people out of public life. Fourthly being trans is not in and of itself political, being trans in no way prevents someone from following orders. Fifthly, the Dr. Seuss books in question stopped print because they weren't making a lot of money and because Seuss books realized that they could get a huge amount of money by getting conservative morons to buy huge amounts of the books that they are still selling, which is exactly what happened.

The next generation will prove that. I'd bet high dollars we're not gonna see mass sex changes. If there actually is a rising pattern of trans within Gen Z, then it is because everyone is so miserable, we want an escape from our daily lives, but now they just pollute that with the very problems that plague RL and say you're not welcome if you hate that.

Not every trans person gets or wants bottom surgery. I

I find it quite ironic that you purport ST has gone mainstream and have criticized it in the past when you rail on actual nerd communities in anime. Do you support corporate mainstream diversity or do you support independent artistic fan projects? Look at the backlash Joker got over nothing. Heaven forbid an artist has control over their own work. Diversity nowadays comes with bad writing and acting like it's never been done before. Gimme the whitewashed timeless tales of the past, if you please, if it means we have actual good content.

Mainstream diversity and indented artistic projects are not things that are at odds with one another, especially since much of the mainstream diversity has been the result of passionate creators pushing back against corporate executives.

The military has always experimented on its soldiers and done questionable, horrible things. Facts. I also haven't defended Mr. Trump on this.

Well, you're doing trans people a horrible disservice in trying to treat them as a special case. Also, congratulations, you're literally adding nothing new since I had said that you're there in the military to fight and obey, and in that respect, practically anyone but the disabled could join on the front lines.

How am I treating trans people as a special case?

All I see is that the corporations that pander to SJWs want to change history. Rewrite it to suit their narratives. Again, bringing up Ms. Carano, I fully expect them to edit her appearances out of TM. I'd bet money on that, as well. You're leftist and you want corporate diversity? Why? If you hate the corporations? Diversity, to me, seems to work better outside it. If you support corporate diversity, well, this is what they do. This is what it leads to. Obsession over pandering to a woke fringe that winds up purging somebody over their political affiliation, from all traces of history of product and RL.

I want diversity in general, we live under capitalism, so normalization is going to come through corporations. What part of that is hard to understand? If it was a fringe corporate America wouldn't be pandering because they'd kill each and everyone of us if that was the most profitable option.

Dark Fate was produced by James Cameron and he's long past doing things that he doesn't want to do.

Well, I could list many other examples. That isn't the only one.

Problem is diversity at this point means you have no place if you're a cis-het straight white male. And then they deflect to say the problem is YOU for being racist and sexist even if you're saying the story is awful.

My dude if you're a cis straight white man you have basically the entirty of western canon to look back on and hundreds of films and tv shows a year in which you're the lead.

Demanding PC themes means the stories are being butchered. Real-world activism is one thing. Why do you want that in art? Political art is fine. Art has no room for political correctness.

Because people like to see themselves in art. On a personal level, seeing a trans woman that was something other than a punchline, a victim, or a prostitute probably would have helped me come to terms with my identity much sooner in life.

So logically allowing self-identification is the only way to go.

And that would make me literally nothing.

My story already ended long ago in the relative space that is the future. That's been done and told. And I'm just a speck of dust in an infinite universe.

I self-identify as nothing because that is my inevitable end state.

That's a deeply sad way to look at the world.

And "what if someone identified as [inanimate object]" or "I identify as [inanimate object]" is a long running trans phobic joke.

What if a bisexual man made it?

He would be transphobic

My dude it's not about a few people saying mean things it's about politcal movements to ban us from public life and the staggering amount of hate crimes committed against us.

And there's always a counter-movement and pushback, so don't you worry about that. It won't happen. At least not in the next five years.

No hate crime is ever justified, and yet, I think comparisons to Nazi Germany are just false and misleading while those who want to push us onto that pathway use it to divide people. We are not at that level yet. And I doubt we will be.

Wanting to erase trans people from existence is a very Nazi Germany thing to do as the destruction of institute that advocated for gay and trans rights was one of the first things to happen after Hitler took power. It litterally set back our under standing of transness by decades.

Have you considered that the reason executives are listening to one side and not the other is despite most media executives being very, very conservative they've found their is more money in diversity?

Yeah, but it's not like we get good writing that way. And a lot of your remarks seem at odds to actual nerd fandom. Sounds like you want diversity and mainstream even though that means the character and plot is watered down and diluted. It loses what made it special. Who cares? If getting good stories means republican oversight, fine then. I'll accept that. And it's not as if SJWs are being any better, shoehorning in hamfisted commentary that won't have any cultural staying power with the very brief window of history we are living within.

In general conseratism makes for shitty writing because it cannot imagine anything being better than it once was.

Standards of beauty have varied wildly over both time and cultures.

And yet there's always been a consistent mainstream view on that. A consistent one. And for good reasons. Despite our identity issues, there are core facets to humanity that will always remain constant and part of us.

There really hasn't been any such view.

What great work of art has been ruined in this way?

SW, ST, DW, Terminator, Predator, many. No one is happy with the entertainment media we get now, and yet they still pander to you SJWs. That's no doubt why you keep supporting it even though you complain, when by all rights you shouldn't. You're getting exactly what you've asked for.

Everywhere in culture now people are hungry, DESPERATE for alternatives. We just have a tiny handful ruling over everything. And we just don't have any.

I'm off for the night. Later.

Some of those are pretty wierd choices as many of them, especially Star Trek, have been politically progressive since their inception. Like Star Trek takes it at face value that communism and socialism are inherently superior to capitalism.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Heterosexuality predates the rise of agriculture. Why? Because it's how the species thrives.

And I'm not claiming gay or bisexuals are unnatural. Some male animals in nature only get a chance once a year (ouch), so they plow their mates. Kind of a "friends with fringe benefits" angle.

But I am stating that it perpetuates the species, thus why heterosexuality is the norm and always will be. The most you can claim is experimentation will increase, which I am all in favor of.

LGBT need greater opportunity for that. That's what I want that they can't give us. Equal greater opportunities for ALL. Not social equity.

Yikes.

Yeah.

Homosexuality is widely observed in nature. It's as natural and normal as heterosexuality.

Oh but it's not "Mainstream", whatever the fuck that means, so it shouldn't have the vast and powerful economic and popular media leverage it does in Captain Crimson's worldview. @_@

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

OK so what was the point of that post to begin with?

Homosexuals do not represent a large enough population to affect population growth or maintenance. And the trans community is even smaller.

Yes the heterosexual community is much larger and what you would consider normal due to the population percentage.

Confused Face

I don't know...

How about these giant monster corporations claiming to put LGBT allegories in their stories, and they flounder, mainstream fandom hates it, and so it brings backlash to the trans community? It's a two-way street, when one is demanding activism and the company is being activist when steeped in their own double standards. How the H am I supposed to take executives seriously about transpandering when it's not like they're activists anyway, it's to make money. Again, corporate social justice is propaganda. They don't stand for social justice, but ruthless profit.

I mean, because God forbid, if there's one thing Trekkies couldn't relate to with the trans community, it's being sidelined and ostracized on the fringes of the acceptable social norms...

SARCASM

Objection, relevance?

What in holy Hecate's name does Woke Effing Disney and trans allegory have to do with BATHROOMS?

This is a thread about a law restricting BATHROOM use, as in the places where people shit and piss. If you keep dragging your pet issue into every other debate, no matter how tangental, I'm going to have to start calling you DBF Junior.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

It's not just judgment form their peers, it's getting thrown out of their home by their family, it's getting fired from their jobs, it's potentially being murdered in the streets.

Well, a business can associate with whomever they want. They are not obligated to bake gay wedding cakes, just like how I defended that Disney had every right to fire Ms. Carano. Yet all the lefties here were whooping that up and celebrating it despite talking about female empowerment, OMG...

Bathrooms are public accommodations. This isn't about your holy war against Woke Disney. This is about how trans people are more likely to have kidney infections from holding in piss so long because they are afraid of the potentially lethal consequences of in-person bigotry.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

You say that social pressure to not transition is down as you call vast amounts of trans people fakes for not transitioning to circumstances. Not only that but Republicans demonstrably do no not support trans people as they are currently introducing vast swaths of legislation to push trans people out of public life.

If they're online, yeah, sorry, I'm gonna call a spade as I see it. Because you can't trust anything online. And keyboard warriors get so upset woke isn't taking off in the rest of the country that they wind up pushing even harder for it in entertainment through social media, generating so much noise the creatives and executives bow to the pressure, then blame everything and anyone under the sun for why it tanked. Gotta love the way self-professed leftists smother artistic expression and freedom of speech. It is ruining the experience for so many people who don't want hamfisted topical politics in our stories.

I'll give you a reverse monte hall for consideration:

If you're given a button to press and it kills someone and gives you a million dollars, utterly conviction free, do you press it? The answer is hopefully no.

Likewise if you know that your business venture is part of the overall societal practice whatever that is that marginalizes their audience or anyone else for that matter, do they do nothing in response to awareness of that societal practice or do they do something?

Regardless of the motives or generalizations that anyone can point to, there's a clear dichotomy that shouldn't take too many hurdles to reach a reasonable point of principle, and that imo is that postmodernism doesn't dictate that pointing to certain people as sensationalists doesn't define the overall agenda of inclusiveness, particularly and especially in a medium that's targeted at some of the most impressionables of society.

[Captain Crimson]

Yeah, no, I'm happy in my workplace. I don't need a million dollars to kill somebody. Not even Mr. Putin or Mr. Kim or anyone else you could name.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Tis a start.

[Captain Crimson]

Who am I to judge? I'm just an opinionated Southern redneck whose complexion resembles Jim Gaffigan and will never have to answer to anyone. I like being a nobody.

[Mickey_Rat15]

It's not just judgment form their peers, it's getting thrown out of their home by their family, it's getting fired from their jobs, it's potentially being murdered in the streets.

Well, a business can associate with whomever they want. They are not obligated to bake gay wedding cakes, just like how I defended that Disney had every right to fire Ms. Carano. Yet all the lefties here were whooping that up and celebrating it despite talking about female empowerment, OMG...

Bathrooms are public accommodations. This isn't about your holy war against Woke Disney. This is about how trans people are more likely to have kidney infections from holding in piss so long because they are afraid of the potentially lethal consequences of in-person bigotry.

...and there is a classic example of a moral panic.